FTSE treads water as investors await EFSF details

The markets are down because the analysts have worked the sums and concluded there is actually no new money and no new solution. Germany has got its way they are not bailing anyone out.

To think you can solve the problem by cutting Greece's debt level to 120% of GDP and is laughable. Italy can't cope at this level (10yr bonds at 6% now and rising) so Greece has no chance.

Hopefully the EU leaders will start work on the next bailout shortly as they'll need it by xmas.

I for one think the signs are all ominous. I think the whole substance of last Wednesday/Thursday's political agreement is very suspect and the markets are beginning to show that this is beginning to be realised by investors.

Watch out for a fairly big market downturn in the next two weeks as the Chinese and the "financial engineering" both prove to be foolish optimism on the part of the Euro politicians. The sticking plaster will become unstuck once again for sure and down the pan the Eurozone, as we know it, goes.

Let us hope Osbourne and Cameron can use that to advantageously re-negotiate our deal with Europe.

I must agree to both of the above. The markets are in for another pounding in the next few weeks. However, as the EU is our largest trading partner we should be looking for ways to help not sit on the sidelines trying to look smug (with a emphasis on the trying). If we'd been in the Euro, how large would our debt be? Bigger than Italy?

Personally I'm not in favour of renegotiation, we're already "on the sidelines" we can only cut ourselves further off with nowhere else to go.

I've said already that the headlines we saw yesterday were this generation's version of Chamberlain returning from Munich waving his 'piece of paper'.

But how does a headline like 'FTSE treads water' really help, bearing in mind most people tend to invest money for a period of years rather than hours...

Yep totally agree with the sentiment to this thread. Personally have been invested 80% in bonds (not greek ones!) since the crisis erupted earlier in the summer. Waiting for the ftse to sink below 5000 and will drip feed back in.

If Italy dont sort themselves out quick its going to be carnage on the markets.