Lib Dem hedge fund donor Marshall warns Cable against attacks

The Goose's eggs are rotten. Go Vince!!

Golden for some, not so golden for others.

Did not realise that Marshall was in the same league as Ashcroft.

I like Vince, we need a few of his type in Government... keeps everyone on their toes...

However I also feel now is the time to move on from slagging off bankers, we are all aware of the role some institutions played in creating the crisis.

But, this repeating bashing isn't going to get us out of the hole they dug, lets support financial institutions (with better regulations) and get the City back paying tax and employing people.

Bonus bashing is the new fox hunting, it's emotive and plays well in the media but is detracting from the more important issues at stake.

How do we lower borrowing and grow the economy at the same time? That's what we should be talking about!

(ps. incase anyone was wondering I'm not an Investment banker with a huge bonus..)

Vince Cable's comments are not helpful at all. The man has passed his sell by date and is increasingly looking like a liability to his party, the coalition and his pension! I agree, time to go!

Very popular attacking the city, but the reason it is our only "industry"

is because Westminster basically gave the rest away over the last 60 years !

Good for Vince, he has touched on a raw nerve and has illustrated the two rotten practices bad for UK:-

1. excessive director bonuses

(people awarding themselves millions on top of already huge salaries without earning it is almost self-corruption, and defrauds shareholders)

2. ease by which foreign organisations, particularly state owned ones, can take over our good well run companies.

(we lose their longterm earning capability and the country is poorer as a result., particularly if jobs and investment goes overseas)

Most of the increase in living standards the last 10 years is on borrowed money, and with the resulting sterling devaluation more chance of overseas takeovers.

The politicians always blame the bankers and hedge funds completely for the credit crunch, but we must not forget it was lax and incompetant regulation by the last government. that allowed them to gear-up their funds into a huge bubble which the whole country is now paying for.

Despite many warnings, the situation was allowed to perpetuate. I wonder why? Tax revenues and contributions to party funds?

The politicians are too fond of blaming the bankers completely for the credit crunch, but we must not forget it was lax and incompetant regulation by the last government. that allowed them to gear-up their funds into a huge bubble which the whole country is now paying for.

Despite many warnings, the situation was allowed to perpetuate. I wonder why?

To- james t

You may not be an investment banker but but you most probably are in Services.

Would not surprise me if you operate in London and SE.

PS Everyone knows we are in a hole, but bankers must take their fair share of the blame, and not go back to their old ways.

Via dialogue and the Coalition we must find a better way.

Vince has rightly made some points for discussion without seeking permission from party donors. I like his style.

I hope we are not going to go back to politics through tax revenues and contributions to parties alone-Marshall included.

Vince Cable is wrong to say that it was "casino" banking which got the banks into trouble. It was too much bad lending (particularly on property) at interest rates which were too low that led to high bad debts.

Hedge Funds and Trading Securities did not cause the downfall of Northern Rock, HBOS nor Lehman.

Vince Cable: finally someone with the guts to talk some sense!

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/blogs/jefflcbba/mad-lemming/vince-cable-right-and-needs-our-support

Most of us find the enormous salaries and bonuses that banks hand out offensive, but that's no reason to go off on a rampage against the whole sector.

I would like common sense to prevail when it comes to doling out bonuses etc. but the world is ruled by greed, and you can't legislate against that. Look at what some of our politicians got up to with their expenses, and these are the people we are asking to protect us from the greed of others.

Talk about a sick joke.

It's a rotten world, we just have to live with it as best we can I am afraid.

Jeff Lambert - Absolute rubbish. Talk is cheap! You are just part of the petty minded establishment that feels that they must adopt the moral high ground at every opportunity. If you think the hot air that comes from Vince Cable is the panacea that solves everything, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Once you have finished off the banks, then it will be the Footballers and Actors, then the other businesses that choose to reward their captains accordingly. Then it will be the turn of the Generals and Admirals. This is Animal Farm! If you want to go and live in a totalitarean state, then go to North Korea and stop blaming the Banks for everything.

If anybody saw this man geeting his wired crossed during the election they will know that he is no more than a charleton who knows what to say to gain support from the mindless do nothings that can only complain about what the better off are earning. I agree that the system could do with improving but this should be done with some intelligent thought and not political reteric. Cheap comments dont help Vincey boy

Fred

For the record I believe people like Bill Gates have earnt every cent of the billions he owns.

I have no problem with footballers, my favourite manager (Arsene) retires them at 30, so it is a short working life!!

I resent like mad people like Sir Fred Goodwin who learn how to abuse an antiquated and not relevant accounting system (double entry book-keeping) whilst at Deloittes, and then move on to really abuse it at a bank RBS. Whilst abusing this system they draw a vast salary and bonuses based on fictitious (profit) figures.

When it all goes wrong they walk away with a vast pension. They expect the taxpayer to pick up the pieces of the mess they have made. The Government does that, based on the fact that my grandchildren will be expected to pay more tax than they otherwise would!

Fred, is your surname Goodwin by any chance?

Vince Cable is exactly correct in drawing everyones attention to this!!!!

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/blogs/jefflcbba/mad-lemming/vince-cable-right-and-needs-our-support

Sometimes it's necessary to give false reassurance to the party faithful to keep them on board. Tony Blair used to wheel out Prescot to pacify the unions (why else would they have kept him around?).

Paul Marshall shouldn't worry, but is quite right to criticise Vince Cable as it helps convince the party faithful that Vince's words matter.

re Fred

Might be useful to start at the beginning of finishing off.

Surely it started with manufacturing under Mrs T.

The banks wanted to finish themselves off, without any assistance. Except for tax payers half of them would not be here.

It is not disgruntled taxpayers that should be sent to North Korea, but the likes of Fred the Shred.

Vince Cable does not mean one word of what he said.

The real story is the near insurrection in the Liberal Camp at what they see as the betrayal of traditional Liberal policies.

This was playing to the audience to make them think that there would be a return to the manifesto they fought on, and the party they joined.

New labour came out and called themselves just that.

New Liberalism is far more deceitful.

As the man at Rorke's Drift said, "You're all going to die"

re Tom

Quelling insurrection and playing to audience, yes, but deceipt no.

Could it just be that the Liberals (and Conservatives) are acting in the national interest and doing what is necessary?

Certainly paying bankers $M unearned bonuses with taxpayers money, and financiers selling our best companies, is not in national interest. That is not in the manifesto either.

As Fred suggested, a distinction has to be made between genuine achievement in industry and false money creation.

re Fred

One further comment.

...and then it will Generals and Admirals...

If the Prime Minister can take a cut in salary, so can the captains in the public sector. Especially as Govt Departments have been asked for 25% savings.

I suggest a saving on Salaries in the public sector, for the higher earners, based on progressive principles.

25% cut for those earning over 150,000

20% cut for those between 130,00 and 150,000

15% cut for those between 110,000 and 130,000

10% cut for those between 90,000 and 110,00

5% cut for those between 70,000 and 90,000.

Savings would also occur on the future pensions of these people.

CITYWIRE please estimate what contribution the above would make to our Deficit.

Why should they be exempt from helping us out of this hole.

Fred (Goodwin???)

How about volunteering to pay back some of the money you took from my grandchildren by your knowledge of how to abuse an antiquated (double-entry book-keeping) system?

In your case I would suggest you make a 95% refund to the Exchequer!

Jeff

How pathetic it is to read the number of people here who manage to blame the country's malaise on just one man who happens to share my Christian name and Margaret Thatcher. Do you honestly think that their actions alone contributed to the situation the country currently finds itself in? Is it not the case that the vast majority of the people in this country are unable to confront major issues that effect their lives, preferring instead to carp on about the failure or the apparent greed of an individual. If the French have a grievance, they get out there and let the politicians know what they think about it. This stems from the top with Sarkozy and his predecessors who have never been afraid to confront the big issues.

Look at our record. When the previous Government appointed Frank Field (the best leader the Labour Party never appointed), they completely ignored his findings. In particular, it was pointed out that Civil Servants retire on 2/3rds final salary, index linked at 60 and they manage a cozy little system reserving the best paid jobs for those final years to ensure that they get the best bang for their buck. This is patently unfair, uneconomic and as far as I am aware, still has not been resolved due to the inability of Politicians to confront the real issues. Instead, they insist that the rest of us retire into our 70's and instead deflect public opinion off onto a few individuals who apparently get paid too much. Talk is cheap as I said before! Is it not better to work our way out of the mess we are in than to Tax those that are and carry on with the denial culture that we have created?

May I again refer you to Animal Farm and recommend that if you haven't read it, then now is the time, that is if you can drag yourselves away from X Factor and Eastenders. There is a creeping movement towards the celebration of mediocrity at the expense of innovators and entrepreneurs expertise and the ever increasing reliance on blame culture to explain away the hard fact that you have to manufacture and work for wealth, not print it. For the record, I am not Fred Goodwin, I am self employed and an ex-miner who was left without a job, not because of Thatcher but because Scargill made it impossible to do my job properly!

Fred (not Goodwin)

I agree with most of what you say!!

Your namesake is not THE problem: he just took personal advantage at the expense of the rest of us.

If you read my blog you will hopefully comprehend what I am advocating (as well as supporting Vince Cable) is an end to "double entry book-keeping" as a method for recording company's performance. It was designed in 15th Century and is not fit for use in 21st!

Surely that is enough innovation for one day?

Jeff

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/blogs/jefflcbba/mad-lemming/vince-cable-right-and-needs-our-support

re Fred

Blame culture and talk/hot air have existed for a long time. Mrs T blaming Trade Unions, whilst glorifying the Services Sector (our people).

No-one is blaming just one individual, it is just that Fred Goodwin represents very well what went wrong.

Most small businesses, including yourself probably have taken a cut in rewards during the recession.

Is it not fair that people in public and local government should not take a corresponding cut, as well as bankers?

Look at my suggestion on cutting salaries of the excessively well paid, and simultaneously their pensions.

We are all in it together so lets have cuts across the board.

Jeff, I do not disagree with what you are advocating either. Is it not the case that it is the accountants and their legal backers that are the real villains of the piece. The point I was trying to make is that hot air posturing by politicians results in ill thought out knee jerk reactions or no action what so ever. The problem is that these politicians are "shortermists" and make decisions based on the likely tenure they will have in office which brings us round to the original thinking of Lorna's article about Taxation. Taxing all insundry to the hilt is not the answer. The answer is to stop blaming a few individuals, stop apologising for past misdemenours and actually get on with sorting out the mess we are in with some clear and original thinking. If this needs us all to take salary cuts and pension reductions and cuts in services, then so be it. Cutting a few bankers pay by itself is not the answer!

re My previous comment, Fred.

Correction

Sentence should read

Is it not fair that people in the public sector, local government should take a corresponding cut, as well as bankers?

Fred

I think we are approaching a concensus on this Board.

The real problem is we need a systemic change.

Who was it that said a great journey starts with one small step??

How about this Board coming up with a better way of recording financial transactions than poor old double entry book-keeping----which is ripe for confusiuon and abuse?

1. Whatever method of accounts, I think accountants are part of the problem in industry. Short term thinking only on the bottom line without deep knowledge of the main business, yet they are in a majority on most boards . Their influence as decision makers in Companies should be reduced, similar to German model.

2. Add the short term nature of takeover decisions (ie option-motivated directors, or hedge funds who buy large %age of shares just before a takeover and decide the future of a good company), then you have the recipe for disaster in industry, which we have in this country.

Do the French and Germans allow their best companies and Utilities to go into foreign hands?

Vince's ideas would go some way to improving this situation (I am not a Liberal supporter).

re Accountants

It is not just accountants that can be deemed to be a problem.

How about Solicitors and the Court System?

Non-proportonality is the issue here.

Why should any-one dragged into a boundary dispute have to face a bill of 30(thirty thousand)pounds or more, if the matter goes to court, when the land in dispute is worth 5(five thousand) pounds or less.

Surely it would make sense to have it heard in the Small Claims Court.

OR

Why should any-one with a poor decision from Planning Inspector have to go to High Court to have his decision reversed, at a cost many times the value of his intended build.

We talk about democracy, but do not allow it through prohibitive costs.

What the Tax Man does not take solicitors and others like him take.

No wonder we are not saving for retirement, as there is nothing left to save.

I

Guys

We seem to be having a sensible debate!

If you want to transfer it to my AccountingWeb Blog:

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/blogs/jefflcbba/mad-lemming

feel free---where hopefully some of the profession may get to read it.

FWIW I really believe we cannot continue to reecord financial performance on a system (double entry bookeeping) devised in the 15th Century.

I am quite happy to have my comments trasferred/sent anywhere.

I am out of the country at the moment, so perhaps Citywire could assist.

I also feel that our discussions should be sent to Vince Cable. Might be the only person likely to take some action over the issues raised.

Lloyds, RBS

Lloyds saw an opportunity to expand rapidly, tie up a large section of the banking section. When their greed backfired we the tax payers were left to pick up the tab.

Banks have only one interest and that is their own. Come on bankers come clean

re Fred

Further to my response on Sept 23rd at 17.57

...except for tax payers half of them would not be here.

addendum,

and half of those again are likely to end up being sold to foreign banks like Santander wih their excellent customer service.

re My Forum discussion Question.

Credit worthiness, Banking, and matters relating.

I note that there has been no response to the above. Just to add to it.

The lady concerned has her own house and drives her own paid up car.

She has had throughout her life an impecable credit worthiness record, until the last two "defaults."

Is it fair to carry for six years the history of her argument with a mobile service provider over a trivial sum, which for several years they have not taken to Court.

OR the fact that she made her Court payment a little late?

Thus blocking her from further credit for six years.

I class the Commossioner and senior retail bankers as MORONS, to add to the spivs and crooks.

And then these bankers have the guts to tell us there is little demand for credit.

Error correction

Meant to say spivs and gamblers not spivs and crooks.

Apologies

re Anonymous 1 comment above 26/0857

All of us really need longer memories here.

Politicians have used the banks as the scapegoat. I am not saying banks are blameless, but only operate in the environment created by the government leadership. The government disenfranchised the Bank of England when they set up the FSA. The FSA was packed with government-appointed incompetants who allowed the credit crunch to happen despite warnings. It didnt happen in Canada and Australia.

As others have said, we have to be careful about bank bashing as disctinct from the bonus issue, or another major export earning sector will be destroyed. If they are split up and left as public companies under the present rules, then they most likely will be taken over. What effect will this have on our balance of payments, or lack of it?

Therefore splitting the banks into completely separate companies may just be the self-defeating solution to politicians scapegoats and we all lose again.

re. Santander customer service. Obviously you have not read any of the consumer web sites. They have a very bad feedback record with numerous complaints.

re John16

It was not my intention to just bank ash, but to highlight a serious problem as regards credit and bank account availability, which hopefully can be resolved in a meaningful manner, perhaps with Vince´s help.

The present rules and regulations seem to be out of touch with treality.

As regards splitting up banks, no comment until the matter is reported on.

Wrt Santander I note yours and others comments.