Advisers accuse Towry of failing to transfer clients' assets

Yet more spin from Towry...

... somehow I think the backlog was not a legacy from EJ as Fisher states but was created because so many clients did not want to join Towry.

And no advantage to keeping hold of the clients funds.... what about the 0.5% commission that Towry are receiving, despite being fee only (allegedly)

Once again Towry Law appear to be playing their silly games at taking longer than necessary to transfer clients assets.

Perhaps they need reminded that TCF Outcome #6 also applies to them.

The longer they hold these assets, the longer the continue to receive the trail commission which they will refuse to return, even if the clients request it.

They appear happy to retain commission for which they have provided no service and then criticise adviser firms which receive commission for providing ongoing services when it suits them.

The sooner the FSA ban their broker funds the better.

As an ex-TL'er from well before the whole EJ thing I have found it takes anywhere from a month to nearly two to get ISA transfers completed. Not very TCF some might say, particularly when the reason many wish to transfer is the increase in management charges they have faced?

It is also interesting that my clients have had no written contact confirming transfer requests or the amounts transferred until they get their next 6 monthly statement. Only in a couple of cases did they even get a phone call or acknowledgement of the transfer from an adviser.

The 'rumour mill' is that staff have had to be allocated to deal specifcally with 'transfers out' as the discretionary model assumed these would not be often occurences which in my albeit biased opinon smells of an arrogant approach.

I also feel that an ulterior motive could be asset retaining in the run up to float although they have been "going to float next year" for the last three years as I understand it so quite when this will actually happen is anyone's guess.

With many of my old TL colleagues having left to join SJP and taken their clients with them, and now seemingly an exodus of ex EJ advisers leaving and taking clients, you have to wonder how much Towry's outflows have been over the last couple of years as they only report their total assets under management and now how much in versus how much out........

The upcoming court case over 'client ownership' could appear to be a desperate measure to stem further outflows even though it may be doomed to failure if the client's own interests are taken into account. This could also affect their view on new acquistions with an aim of 'moving' assets into their DMS.

EJ Advisers - why don't you get your clients to put in a formal complaint to TJ on the grounds of best execution.

It will do one of two things - it will either focus TR minds and get the transfers moving or cost TR £500 per client if it goes to the FSO.

Either way it will cause them hassle and money.

interesting spin here, whilst I don't believe TL are deliberately holding onto assets I think they simply can't cope with the outflow of assets acquired from EJ, rather than any transactions oustanding when they took over.

My own clients have been caught up in the log jam but their expectations have been managed accordingly and thankfully they are a patient bunch!

It is clear that Towry are failing to process transfers properly. If the backlog is so great that a four week lead time is required one wonders if they'll have any assets left!

It strikes me as a ploy to try and bankrupt new advisory businesses by starving them of assets and renewing income - just because clients had the temerity to not only turn their noses up at Towry's fund of funds investment proposition but also to stay with an advisor they know and trust..

Even Fisher must realise that these underhand tactics will only reinforce in people's minds that Towry is not a company who respects their client's wishes. Overall, a very poor show!

Just to confirm my understanding, the issue in transferring funds or investments out of Towry is due to Edward Jones!? Come on Andrew, you can do better tan that surely!

If the client contacts Towry and asks for a transfer, chases up Towry to speed up the transfer, complains about the time taken to Towry and has no response to these complaints or movement on their transfer, this is the fault of..................Towry!

Edward Jones don't exist, they moved out, took £1 and gave Towry £35 million to sort things out, Towry took the money but didn't do the work now there is a backlog, its Towry fault pre andsimple and they should pull their fingers out and treat customers fairly.

When Towry talk of only a minority of transfer cases being delayed I would like to know why clients, who want my help in their transfers out of Towry, are being singled out for delays. Over 85% of these clients who have requested delays are now over the 30 day terms and conditions agreement for timing of ISA transfers. Of course I ask this in jest.

I believe the truth is that there are significant numbers of clients wanting to transfer out of Towry and Towry, in some illogical thought process, are trying to protect share holder value, by not putting the resources into facilitating the transfers. How will Towry shareholders feel about this situation should the FSA take away Towry's facility to offer ISA's, or some other significant punishment, if this contract breaking practice continues?

I would like to know the percentage rates of other delayed transfers.

Towry - please just do what you contractually agreed to do with clients.

Its all in the name - cutbacks are affecting us all and that is why Towry haven't the staff to process things quickly. They have even had to cut back the NAME.

Prior to leaving I had a brief insight into the volume of transfer requests coming through and that was just for one or two advisers. No one should be surprised and if TL came clean by admitting there was a backlog and setting timescales and expectations both clients and advisers would at least know where they stood. But, 'coming clean' does not appear to be Fisher's style. He bluffed and 'spun' his way through the takeover and he's still at it. The FSA should throw the book at TL but AF seems to friends in high places. Perhaps when the FSA are replaced he may be forced to run for the hills.

I just want to make a simple factual point about how my client's have been treated by this process.

Two clients, husband and wife, sign transfer forms on the same day at the end of February for a dealing account and ISA account.

As of today, one has had their ISA transferred, the other has had their Dealing account transferred. Neither have both.

This is just one example amongst tens of clients who are in similar positions.

Most have had nothing transferred, a few have had a handful of stocks transferred and only one has had their full account transferred.

However, it did only include 3 lines of stock!

For people who signed up their paperwork at the end of February or beginning of March, is it acceptable that they may have to wait another two months for their holdings to be transferred, five or six months after the paperwork was submitted?

I know the transfers were originally being dealt with by Edward Jones but for nearly a month now, they have been dealt with by Towry and nothing has changed.

Two clients reported them to the FSA last month. Maybe they will take some notice of them!

No kidding - about time this was flagged up. Amongst the many client accounts I've transferred or are in the process of transferring out from EJ/TL (or do we now say just T), there is one ISA Transfer which is now pending since January this year. Yes, January.

It took a complaint from me threatening a complaint by the client to get any kind of a response, but the transfer is still not complete.

So much for the 30-day maximum ISA transfer period, and TCF, eh?

The fact they're so inundated with transfer-out requests says it all, really. Does anyone know of any EJ client who stayed on?

Quote "Such cases are a minority". Behave yourself Mr F!!

I have waited months for my transfer and weeks for a response from Towry copying Financial Ombudsman and requesting complaint be investigated.

Complaint form was returned from Financial Ombudsman suggesting I should wait for a final response from Towry, initial response took 5 weeks to be written.

They don't respond to calls, emails and/or letters promptly, after 12 weeks the complaint form is back with the Financial Ombudsman requesting investigation and action.

Funnily enough the dates of complaint letters seem irrelevant to Towry who quote 10th May 2010 when they say they took full control of EJ accounts.

TCF - Towry they don't know the meaning of the phrase!

Hey its not just the big boys who do these sort of tactics I know of even chartered regional firms putting the blocker on client transfers - get the clients to complian

Apparantly it has been suggested that Towry Slow have no vested interest in holding assets under custody and would like to transfer out all that have been asked.

Yet, wasnt there a recent article from some Towry Slow henchman stating that the recent uplift in profits have partly been accounted for from the EJ merger and assets that have been assumed.

There is obviously a trail income or something that has added to the bottom line and which was acquired during the ake over. And after the previous year´s monumental loss reported a profit was probably required for city confidence, lending covenents etc.

How then can Towry Slow assert that is has no vested interests. The quikcer the transfrs happen the sooner the relevent income stream ends....surely.

If they don't want to come clean about how small the minority is.

Why don't we out them?

I am waiting for 30 client Yes 30 that is, Mr Fisher I am not waiting on 10% or 20% which could be seen as a minority, I'm waiting on 100% and I have been waiting 5 months. Some clients since October.

A total of £2Million client assets not being managed correctly, yes Andrew clients money not yours.

Towry are a disgrace to the industry, so lets hope anyone typing in Towry reviews will read this.

So understand this Mr Fisher when a client decides to leave Towry and go with another firm that means?

Mr Fisher YOUR FIRED

Our transfer department were told by Towry today that the delays were down to the volume of transfers being twice what EJ had told them were in the pipeline. That figure being 3500. So there are currently 7000 transfers in process, if you then add in the accounts that have completed the transfer I suspect the total figure of transfers out must be between 10 and 12000.

Another interesting point if you look at TL figures for last year they attribute £11m to income from EJ, kind of makes you realise the difference holding on to a couple of billion in assets makes to your bottom line.

Mr F is reported to have stated in a shareholder meeting that they have special dispensation from the FSA because thay saved a failing company. Marvellous to have such a great regulator really isn't it?

I'm lovin it, lovin it, loving it!!!!

I could not be more delighted to see Towry in such a mess.

The clients are the ones suffering and that's not fair - but at least they have some money left (even if they can't get at it). I have NOTHING!

I now understand the problem with Towry.

Mr Fisher doesnt understand basic maths.

His minority is my majority , every single transfer ( 80+ ) request i have put in is still waiting and clients are now complaining to Towry and the FSA. The sooner the FSA is abolished and a regulator with ba**s steps in the better. I think Mr Fisher will be dealing with an even greater number of complaints via the ombudsman soon but i am sure he will be able to blame everyone but himself.

May i suggest we pass the link to this subject to the FSA and it might just get through to someone who believes in TCF.

To make the "minority" statement, AF must have the real details of transfer timings at hand. Perhaps he would like to share them with everyone. A simple "on average" transfers out of T are taking XXX for in specie and XXX for cash.

Of course he would do no such thing. My ex colleagues are all experiencing the same delays I am and the lack of communication.

How are the clients in limbo going to be compensated? How can Towry continue to take trail for doing nothing?

One other question. If Towry are holding delayed transfers during the ISA fee anniversary, will they still charge the fee? Unfortunately I think the answer may well be yes.

Many questions that need answers. If Towry will not communicate with advisers or (more importantly) the clients, perhaps the FSA should be asking a few questions of their own.

100% of all my clients' ISAs are still outstanding.

Sick to bloody death of Mr F's B...S...

The only good that has come out of this sorry caper is to enhance my reputation in the eyes of my clients and make TL look ridiculous.

I cannot understand why the FSA has not pummeled these cowboys into the ground.

Another adviser with 100% outstanding

Looks like the Ex adviser's suspicions in the main article is being proved correct from reading this string, with regards to the deliberate asset retention for a false future valuation for IPO.

This must be illegal, misleading the market springs to mind.

Does anyone else agree?

Come on FSA

INVESTIGATE

Could be 5 ex EJ advisers blogging a lot because they are running out of money. Or a small group of IFA,s who dont like change, not sure which but strange that with all the indignity the advisers are all anon.

Since redundancy in Feb I have met several of our EJ clients in town. Not one of them is happy with Towry and are contacting other companies. They have not received any kind of service and have been more or less left in the dark. Towry should be held accountable for this appalling conduct and stop blaming EJ.

It seems a bit hypocritical having a go at ex EJ advisers wishing to remain anonymous when you have chosen exactly the same status.

I am not and never have been amployed by EJ or TL and have always wished to remain anonymous in these blogs for the same reasons as most of us do. We don't wish to stick our heads above the proverbial parapet unnecessarily.

Any company taking more than the 30 day time limit to transfer client assets, Isa or otherwise should be held to account irrespective of whether it is Towry Law or any other institution. This is unfair on the clients, unfair on the other adviser firm and just simply stinks of a big company abusing its position, deliberately or otherwise.

It could be that they have a legitimate grievance and TL are in breach of various regulations. It seems this is ok when it is to their benefit but not when the shoe is on the other foot.

The problem we all have with TL and Andrew Fisher is the constant demonising of commission yet they refuse to refund this to clients when requested. In other words they wish to keep the trail for clients they are no longer servicing.

This is a clear sign of the hypocrisy spouted from this organisation which simply offends us all. If they want to keep the trail commission, Andrew Fisher & Co should cease their double standards rhetoric about the unfairness of commission.

Our transfer dept were told today that there is a backlog of over 4000 transfer clients and that 500 have been transferred so far. since last November In May, Towry Law took on 55000 clients from the EJ platform to add to their existing 40000 clients . Do the maths Mr Fisher 4500 clients out of 95000 is not a 'minority'!

Lets look at the facts>

Honesty and Integrity?

Not two word you could associate with Towry.

"Backlog of asset transfers from Edward Jones"

"huge number of transactions in and out"

Pre TL, EJ had a small number of transfer outs. So no backlog there.

During takeover, most Advisers stopped writing business (hence their guaranteed income in Nov), so no backlog of work there either!

"minority of cases"

Funny that! Most people I have spoken with have had a "minority" of assets transferred over.

Finally, read their accounts. I agree with the posting "in the midst of all their numbers"

doesnt wholly add up. look forward to seeing next years accounts.

Glad Im not on a TL share option. Worth Jack, no sell for 3 years, fantastic deal!!

Clients are now at the Ombudsman.

The FSA need to review their process for takeovers. Clearly Towry were not prepared for the volume of transfers.

Towry do not care about the clients who transfer out, however, someone transferring to their IM takes around 8 days. Irony??

What about the about the lost client details?

One client who wanted cash paid out was asked for their bank details. When they asked why, they were told that the Data Protection Act ruled that during a takeover of business , Towry could not use this information. News to me.

Honesty and Integrity eh?

I know of a lot of ex EJ advisers who are working very long and hard to transfer out their clients from Towry Law, many blog on this site. Towry Law have said that over 100 established brokers have left assuming they had 200 clients each thats over 20000 clients . Why didnt Towry offer jobs to those brokers to prevent them leaving and poaching the clients? That would have shown real honesty and integrity

The point about offering the 100 advisors contracts is well made.

They did offer us contracts.

We looked at the company, looked at the people, looked at the new contract and thought about our clients (long and hard) and told them where to go.

My own personal opinion was 'not now, not ever!'

We have waited since February for our ISA Mutual Funds to be sold by Towry Law so that the monies can be transferred to our preferred company and the monies reinvested within our ISA wrapper. Because we have waited so long, our funds went down dramatically as shown on the contract notes we received in the last few days. By the time the monies are finally transferred, if the market rises, we may lose a lot of our investments. I knew Towry Law were a bunch of asset strippers and am glad they won't be holding our money for much longer. I wish Andrew Fisher all the worst for the future and hope he fails miserably in the long run. What are the FSA going to do about this appalling situation?

Now then I normally blog for a bit of a wind up, and to get off my chest the nonsense of our industry, companies my biggest one the FSA (Faceless S**t Ameturs) as I've renamed them.

Now I haven't ever & never will hide my loathing of the backward 1950s yeehah ride em cowboy EJ business model - seriously flawed, seriously in trouble, THE most ridiculous business model I have ever seen.

However..... Their client philosophy was second to none right from your 0.01p client accounts with monthly statements (ha see my point of the business model losing money minor reason why it was) to your £80,000 client (average EJ top client).

TL - great business model - "machine on a mission" but a big xxxxx ton machine trampling & eating up all in it's way.... & they don't give a monkeys about anything or anyone FACT see it every day with my own eyes...

They already have pretty much what they want and are slowly casting aside clients, staff, administration - problem us too the staff cannot physically & mentally deal with what's being asked of them especially advisors - "business as usual" transfer transfer transfer - IIM IIM IIM annual target to be hit in 4 months - what the problem you've got enough clients??? some are dribbling these letters on Valium like robots - meanwhile deal withhundereds of thousands of complaints - with no clarity or answers for the clients, study for XYZ exam, test after test after test about utter sh**t an accountant should be doing all for what - oh I know transfer bonds to IIM IIM IIM IIM when it's not the best thing for clients with the potential CGT issue coming up - surely we should observe the situation then decide what's best for the client? and work on a system that's abismile with no training!!

At the minute for me having seen both sides they are all as bad as each other TL & EJ

A - shall I be a money grabbing commission chasing self employed numpty that needs to eat this month & will screw any client to get it & prove a point that they are in the EJ Vs TL battle?

Or

B - shall I be dictated to? For a sh**t salary about what's best for clients (when it's not) study for nonsense exams in a seriously flawed industry?

Nope -

C - is the correct answer: shut up do what right for clients as best you can under difficult circumstances and look for a new job - in fact new career!

So yes facts: thousands of clients with no service £150 million+ To be exact but then they're only going to be transferring they're money to commission grabbing sharks that want to churn they're assets!

What a sorry state for clients to be in - and that's what the FSA need to get off they're arse and fix!

Last point: ex BOA finding it all funny - left with nothing, the fact you find it funny and keep concerning yourself with it all is why you have nothing!! not TL fault - why don't you get off your arse and get a new job? Oh I know cos nowhere else on the planet pays 21k+ to drink cups of tea, answer the phone & generally be a lazy nosey gossiping village idiot! Like your precious EJ backward company did!

I think I have just about got the drift of these blogs now...

There are ex-EJ, who are pleased that their ex colleagues are having a hard time doing their jobs.

Ex TL, who are pleased that their old firm are having a hard time getting to grips with it all.

IFAs who just plainly hate TL for all they stand for...and observers like me who have just twigged this fact;

If all the Ex-EJ are not contacting their past clients, as they signed to say they would not, and if they were the go getting "I'll build my business again" briggade who puts THEIR clients first, then why have these clients been disturbed enough to want to move, and have 30 outstanding cases for transfer.

As a friend of mine was a EJ client, he said he had two advisers before being passed to the third who left on this takeover, he has been hounded by the ex-EJ man, who presumable is talking about his client bank without regard for the fact that some of them were given to him by the firm.

You can bet that the FSA will do nothing, that is why the trusty small advisers who wre known to families for years, one man bands, Industrial branch, yes the co-ops the prus, the pearls, all out of business, why, because so long as you are big, and can write a cheque to put right your mistakes they are happy.

Slowly some of my assets have been transferred - dragging heals.

Not one letter from Towry to me seeking confirmation - the client - to say they have started the process - moving my money away. Their procedures seem to have collapsed.

Unclear at present what has been transferred - what has not ? This is my money!

All this time Towry profit through incompetence with trail fees.

I am writing to the FSA for compensation.

I am staggered this man Mr Fisher blames - always someone elses fault - EJ US - are they aware they are being slandered like this?

This is most frustrating.

As an ex EJ adviser, having read a number of articles and blogs on the subject of our takeover by Towry I just wanted to contribute my thoughts.

I understand that there are probably as many people who didn't like Edward Jones as there are that don't like Towry. I would guess that there are similar numbers who like both of them too.

However, I wonder how many of the comments about the group of advisers that worked for both companies come from other 'industry insiders' and how many come from clients.

Although when I started working for Edward Jones, I came from outside of the industry, I wasn't the 'idiot' that some people seem to suggest that all EJ advisors were. Everyone has to start somewhere.

I was 30 years old and had been working in another industry for over 11 years.

I had already completed a Law degree in my own time at night with one of my local universities and had been in various responsible community roles from the age of 17. I am also now a magistrate.

I only mention these things as credibility for my comments.

The clients I dealt with had never heard of Edward Jones before I met them and subsequently only a couple had heard of Towry Law at the point of the takeover.

I always acted with integrity and honesty with my clients both personally and with their assets.

Now I also know as an educated 'idiot' that the business made mistakes and that there were some advisors who weren't up to the required standard. Unfortunately, all of that was outside my personal control.

Who can honestly, hand on heart, say that they have never worked with people that you either didn't like or didn't match up to your opinion of how things were meant to be done.

I also know that I could see through the razzmatazz and 'Americanisms' within the company.

What I can say is that there are probably over a hundred advisors who I could list off the top of my head that I would be happy to refer my parents and grandparents to.

After all said and done, in any business, somebody at some level needs to make a subjective judgement when offering advice to clients.

There are different methods to use to reach that conclusion but in the end, it is always a subjective decision.

I'd like to just ask, given what i've said, who the hell do some of these people think they are to question my 'subjective' judgements and decisions taken at the point of joining EJ, the point of the takeover and the way I advise clients?

I think the phrase "people in glass houses...." could be applied in some cases.

How rude you are - a good fit for TL!

I care about clients and those are the important people in this whole sorry mess. They are the people who pay your wages (albeit indirectly).

And......I'm a coffee drinker, and incidentally NOT anonymous as I am proud to stand up and be counted.

How entertaining is this!

"Towry Law appear to be playing silly games at taking longer than necessary to transfer clients assets"

I suppose you 'need' the commission for churning the client assets to survive and then dump them in the exactly the same way EJ did? Sorry, maybe I am wrong and you are complaining because your clients assets are at risk because they are invested with Towry - Towry, being profitable, positive cashflow and are RDR compliant, oh and also a very very loyal employee team! I understand your concerns !

Just to be clear - Towry have not created this, EJ did and for all of you advisers on this blog, you should be ashamed of yourselves for actually not having one piece of common sense and or decency when introducing your clients to a company who continually made a loss - ie have never made a profit in the UK, ever - who in turn dumped you and your clients, so please get real!

It is about time you all took a reality check and actually come to the conclusion that you failed your clients not Towry.

Here is to the future and for Towry to lead the way and by example!

Regarding the comments of BOAs being lazy and drinking tea. I have to say the BOAs were the people who kept the offices open for clients. So many advisers took a lot of time off sick or with hangovers, the excuses for not coming to work were laughable. Granted EJ were very silly keeping this lazy lot employed, they were far too trusting. EJ did train many people who simply were not up to the job and many of them really struggled with exams. These are the ones who have stayed with TL the capable FAs have moved on. TL are aware they have been left with the poor performing advisers and it remains to be seen how long they will be employed.

I suppose it depends how you define 'capable' is that capable to churn clients effectively or just be true to the clients needs?

The only way forward is for clients to put pen to paper and complain in wriitng immediately to Edward Jones/Towry Law and copy in the Financial Ombudsman. In the absence of any worthwhile or final response after 8 weeks submission of a formal complaint to the Ombudsman may be appropriate.

If enough people complain the Financial Ombudsman has a duty to refer the issues to the Financial Services Authority, one would hope that they will take swift and appropriate action!

I would question why the FSA is not aware already and actively investigating what has gone on?

What exactly is not happening for the Ombudsmen and or FSA to be get involved? Is it just not happening quick enough for ex EJ advisers to get their commission? Or is it that you, the client will be financially disadvantaged? I am sure all clients have not and will not be financially disadvantaged therefore, nothing to complain about? As mentioned previously, EJ have dumped the clients and Towry are dealing with the situation...that is fact! Had Towry not acquired EJ, I am sorry to say but you, the client, would wait a lot longer to get anything!! The issues you are currently facing is down to EJ, not Towry!!

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/isa/isa-bulletin2.htm

This link which is straight from HMRC's website states the rules.

If they are taking longer than 30 days they are in breach of TCF.

If they send it back saying the clients account number doesnt match, or the NI number is different or the date of birth is slightly wrong then they are again in breach of transfer regulation. They should contact the investor for clarity. I am happy to put my name to this because i have just got off the phone to quite a few advisers i worked with at Edward Jones, all of which are experiencing the same thing.

Our clients didnt sign up for this behaviour and it is disgusting

The 30 day rule

There have been a number of recent press articles about the time it is taking for ISA transfers to take place. The ISA transfer time limit – which should be specified in the terms and conditions – relates to the old manager. The ISA regulations make clear that it is the investor who stipulates the timing of the transfer and that the transfer:

'shall be subject to any reasonable business period (not exceeding 30 days) of the account manager required for the practical implementation of the instructions’.

The problems seem to be occurring where the investor approaches the new manager to start the ball rolling but the new manager delays contacting the old manager. We have been told that in some instances the new manager has maintained that the ISA rules allow them 30 days to contact the old manager. This is not correct. There is nothing about this in the regulations. It falls to managers to treat their customers fairly, which is central to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) philosophy, by not causing unacceptable delays which inevitably lead to complaints.

Latch onto what you want but, are Towry breaching these regulations?? Great observations which are warrented but - questionable - of course?!

I read with interest an article about the floatation stating that apparently A Fisher said that there was app £3.5Bn in discretionary management. By my estimates on previous public information this cannot be the case. It may be that total assets held come to this value but not by my estimation under discretionary. If my memory serves right someone from Towry Law stated last Autumn that funds in the IIM at that time were just £750Million. In reality, I would expect the value at floatation on current market values and deducting transfers out to be more realistically £2.6Bn. Perhaps Mr Fisher can clarify this point for the record.

Towry could not care less if clients wishing to transfer are treated fairly at all. More importantly though is the question, does the FSA?

Fisher says its a minority, 6,000 outstanding transfer cases is a big minority. Many of which include ISA transfers from February this year, still not resolved with client statements saying they have transferred and the assets still sitting with Towry.

Towry should be ripped to shreds for what they have done to Edward Jones Clients. They lied to them from the start about their intentions, saying 'No changes, no changes' and at the same time working to close office, increase their fees and churn as many people as possible out of good investments into their IMM portfolio, that in many cases costs clients more money in the long run.

Advisers at TL are remunerated on moving people into Towry's funds, not on giving good independent advice. Towry won’t admit it but they have made a huge mistake in buying Edward Jones UK as EJ clients valued service and are leaving on mass to find it elsewhere.

It would be nice to think the FSA might do something about this kind of activity and bring Fisher to book, but I doubt it. I'm rather more confident that its Towry's big financial backers that might axe Fisher before the FSA even gets out of bed or another long lunch. Surely they can see that they are further away from floatation after Fisher's poor management than they have ever been before this mess.

Watch this space Towry will be up for sale before they ever float as a company!

Where have the rest of the 50 odd comments on this thread gone?

Following complaint to Towry, Financial Ombudsman and the FSA you hit a brick wall. Conclusion they must all in bed together!

Well, my comment has disappeared....

Can Citywire explain what has happened to all these other comments that have gone missing ?

Truth is that tranfers do not come under FSA juristiction. I have checked this with them, concept of treating customers fairly does not appear to concern the FSA . The only way of dealing with these issues is for all clients to make a formal complaint. Only then will the FSA find out about this. This is all after the event. By the way if you make a complaint to Towry copy in the FSA, I suspect that most complaints are not being logged and are being treated as lesser events and thus not reported to the FSA. Once the FSA, post event finally looks at this they will realise that they were warned about this before they approved the takeover and did nothing to address the issue in advance of the takeover. Come to your own conclusions.

Once you have made your complaint direct to Andrew Fisher at their Bracknell offices, make sure to notify your MP of your dissatisfaction.

That's the customers, what about advisers who are expecting to work with these clients?

Perhaps they should consider clubbing together and starting a class action against Towry for loss of earnings.

Don't panic everyone! Your comments haven't been deleted - it's just a temporary glitch caused by the new site launch. We'll be reinstating them as soon as we can.

Apologies for the confusion.

Not surprised really, they made most of the staff redundant and now they find themselves with too much work and advertising for staff, what a joke ! I for one am glad I was made redundant, I am working again for an ethical BRITISH company and do not have to LIE or SELL MY SOUL for my salary. Ex BOA

After deciding not to join Towry from Edward Jones I have decided to leave the industry. However I live in a small community and it seems that it takes 1 week to sell all a clients investments and put them into a towry law 'fund of funds' (with out looking at the tax postion of the clients and chargeing them 1.5% upfront) while it takes over 1 month to get cash out of the accounts for clients holidays. Surely this isn't treating customers fairly!

After deciding to leave the industry rather than join Towry. I can confirm from my ex clients( and still friends ) even getting cash from a towry account to buy a car or pay for a holiday can take 4 weeks. However to sell every investment they had and transfer it into a Towry isa and reinvest into a Towry 'portfolio' at 1.5% upront and 2% p.a. can be done in 7 days

No one seems to care about the clients, Towry and Financial Ombudsman don't and the Financial Services Authoirty are too busy drinking tea /coffee and munching on cucumber sandwiches!

Would any ex-EJ Financial advisers - that excludes Towry Relationship Managers who laughingly call themselves Wealth Managers, post an 'AYE' on here, anonymously of course, if they wish to form part of a class action.

The truth is that Towry have turned FAs from EJ into even more pure sales people than they were. The main difference being they now have only one product to sell - the IIM. They do NOT do any of the portfolio building and research that was required to build an EJ portfolio, it's all done by the 'paraplanners'. They are now just overpaid sales assistants lead by their targets into selling a product that may not be suitable for the client, and that they know the client will pay much more for. How any of them can work for Towry I cannot think, unless they are desperate for money and have little or no integrity. I am an ex BOA, some clients I see regularly. They have indicated they really are unsure of what is being 'sold' to them, and some even believe it's almost compulsory. I have told them they MUST complain, but all ex EJers will know that the people I am talking about are elderly and came to us for the wholistic caring approach, and to give up worrying about their money. Now some are worried sick and do not understand what they own. Who cares - well I care but I can do nothing. Please can somebody that is left in this industry seriously do something. The action mentioned by a previous contributor sounds good - at least that would raise interest maybe by the media, and that would make rumbles. Please ex EJ FAs get together and DO something. Thanks

To all and Anonymous7. Yes let's get together. I have a meeting with a group of legal professionals at 6, where one of our discussion points will be setting out the terms of a class action, but this will not work without your support. We have interest already, but want more. Please send an AYE as requested to show your support.

Count me in.

Thanks Up North

Hi Libby Di Massio. Hope you are well and understand why former advisers and some others from head office, etc, remain anonymous.

It's so funny reading all the comments about the Towry proposition, when 99% of you don't have a clue what it is, how it works, or the fees NOT being charged to transfer former EJ portfolio's into it. It's not a DIF, it's not a "fund of funds", and it's certainly not there just beat a benchmark - unlike a FofF.

Or how it might not be suitable for the client, unlike say, the portfolio's that were constructed by the marvellous EJ advisers, who were only allowed to sell what "home office" said and had little or no investment expertise of their own to call upon, but suddenly now they are working for someone else have become experts.

You will all transfer your clients portfolio's out into your new platforms and churn them, just like you did at EJ. You too have to earn your money just like every other IFA out there.

Jones has gone, Jones lost £260 million in eleven years with a business model that didn't work. Jones was the one that took you on with it's promises and spat you out on a whim when the going continued to be tough. Jones in the US was processing the transfer out requests before 10th May, just like when you guys were still working for your beloved company.

Except that they didn't. They ignored over 5000 requests and didn't tell anybody.

They just sent them back,...

I have rarely come across such a hypocritical bunch of people as the many anonymous bloggers on this forum and wonder how you justify your comments when all you are doing is the same thing.

As one comment says "it's taking up to x to transfer in specie and Y to transfer in cash" - if what you did at Jones was so wonderful and your constructed portfolio's were so good - why would you need to transfer out in cash? Oh yes, of course, so you can re-invest the money somewhere else.

Go on boys and girls - you go earn your commissions and good luck in a post RDR world!

To Adam Grant. I do believe the mention of transfering X in specie and Y in cash was more a question of getting some honest and transparent answers, understanding there may be differences in timings between the two. For the record I would imagine the vast majority of transfers are indeed in specie (you may have difficulty in understanding the difference between Majority and Minority if you are anything like Mr Fisher)

You appear to know the figures, so perhaps you could furnish everyone with an answer instead of trying to cloud the issue. So simple question - how long are (non IIM) transfers taking ? and how long are the IIM transfers taking. Succinct and simple answers would be fine.

Oh and by the way, doesn't Towry attempt to transfer everything in cash!!

Having worked for TL for a number of years, a couple under the "stewardship" of Fisher, I do have a clue what it is. It is a DIF. Do not believe what Fisher tells you. go to:

www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/dist_inf_funds.pdf

Jones was a bad business model, that is clear. But i believe that the majority of advisers were hard working, diligent, honest and loyal - to both EJ and their clients. Clients chose them as their advisers as they trusted them. Whoever's name is above the door, that doesn't change - as long as they continue to offer trusted advice, competitive charges and decent performance. No one company or person has the monopoly on this.

Your stand is hypocritical of biblical proportions - "if what you did at Jones was so wonderful and your constructed portfolio's were so good - why would you need to transfer out in cash? Oh yes, of course, so you can re-invest the money somewhere else."

Well it may well be that they have realised that there is another way apart from the Jones way - but isn't that what you at TL are saying and doing? The difference being that normal people are grown up enough to understand and acknowledge this, however the borg within TL towers will maintain that their way is the only way. Which is why the world at large view you as a bunch of arrogant to55ers.

I see that there is no Adam Grant on the FSA register which leads me to believe that you are either an inexperienced admin person believing the propoganda that you are being fed, or an "adviser" without the confidence to put your money where your mouth is by showing your name.

Before the level is charged, i do not give my name as i am now an employee of a competitor company and they would not want their name to be brought into this. If i were self-employed, you would get it with both barrels. Assuming it was of course, double-barrelled.

However, remarkably, we do actually agree on one point. That is; "it's certainly not there just beat a benchmark".

Seeing your track record of performance, that would be to aspirational.

Aye, Count me in. We should be able to get 100 or more. Good idea - most will agree if you go public

Ex TL'er

I am neither, you will not find me on the FSA register because I am not registered. I am a client, once of Edward Jones and now of Towry. My adviser was one who was offered a position and took it, and is probably a little more open with the info he shares with me than he should be.

I never said Towry didn't recommend that I should sell all the investments I bought whilst a client of Edward Jones, I was commenting on those who moan that they do it, but do it themselves.

I have looked at the link you posted and would comment that from what I have been told, there appear to be some stark differences.

1) Towry Law do not receive rebated commisions from fund managers or any share of fund manager charges.

In fact the whole description of a DIF:

Distributor-influenced funds are created for the clients of a particular distributor, typically an adviser firm. They could be designed on a bespoke basis for the distributor or they could be set up using an existing fund that is tailored for the distributor. NO, TL PUT THE FUNDS TOGETHER THEMSELVES

Fund administration and management is outsourced to other firms NO IT'S NOT but the distributor may have a degree of influence over the fund (short of day-to-day asset selection TL HAE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER THE SELECTED FUNDS AND MANAGE DAY-TO-DAY ASSET SELECTION). It may be, for example, that the distributor is able to:

• influence the hiring (or removal) of the delegated investment manager; NO

• create accountability of the investment adviser by attending investment committees; MAYBE - DON'T KNOW FOR SURE; WILL ASK MY ADVISER or

• appoint (or remove) the Authorised Corporate Director. CANNOT DO THIS

BTW, I am sorry that you are unable to "give it to me with both barrels",..!!

Dear Adam Grant, your comments about churning are OFFENSIVE!

Most brokers across the industry are honest and deal with fee structures. EJ Compliance was meticulous about possible churning and advisers had to document why a switch was appropriate and why particularly it was appropriate to go a route that would create a trade commission. Most IFA business trade with fees where possible. So these brokers that left EJ having mostly gone that route are trading with no commission on trades and therefore there can be no accusation of churning.

I request that you withdraw your remark.

To follow another point by Mr Grant about having to use the funds that EJ recommended.

This I am afraid to say is untrue.

EJ Research researched the entire market place of UK funds to identify fund houses and underlying funds that they provide that would create a balanced portfolio of Mutual Funds and Unit Trusts. This allowed for the broker to choose and create a suitable portfolio for the client.

There was no requirement to use these funds. If the adviser could do their own research to demonstrate a suitable portfolio and could back this up with independant research, then compliance would accept the proposition. This is just how IFA's work, in researching the market place. Edward Jones had some really usefull tools for doing such research, although not as advanced as they are today.

Interestingly, EJ Research did a pretty good job of selecting some great funds, although there were a few notable mistakes, which I am certain appeared the most appropriate funds at the time Research brought these on.

Dear Mr Grant - You are not an adviser, is this/was this you http://www.hotfroguk.co.uk/Companies/Adam-Grant

"Leading executive search firm within asset management sector."

It's just useful to know whether you are coming at this from a purely "client" of an adviser perspective or from somewhere else.

I have never worked for EJ or TL and don't have an axe to grind with TL other than Mr Fishers many "holier than though" public statements, the accusations of which don't apply to how I do business, but when we look deeper we often seem to find apply to TL!

If he stopped making inflamatory statements (or perhaps he is misquoted), TL would not come in for anything like as much flack as they do.

Dear Mr Grant, I believe that you are here to muddy the waters. Please remove yourself from this group. This is dealing with clients concerns and should not become your hobby horse.

If Adam Grant is the person that Anonymous 9 believes him to be then describing his company as a leading executive search firm within the asset management sector sounds great until you discover that the companies website doesn't load - VERY 'LEADING'!

As Balanced View said, lets get back to the 'knitting' and leave Mr Grant to one side.

To Balanced View. Interesting choice of name given that Adam Grant was responding to a previous comment. Oh but hang on, I forgot that this is the have a go at Towry site and if anybody tries to set the record straight they get gunned down.

Anonymous 1. I take it that you will also be transferring in specie your clients shares across to wherever you now are. I bet they just love you for the advice on RBS, Harley Davidson, Lehman Bros. etc etc. But now your not with EJ, no worries, just blame someone else.

Saw an interesting copy of a letter today from a clients solicitor complaining on his clients behalf about the deliberate withholding of asets . I think this will be the first of many.

Also a client called today after speaking to someone at Towry , Bracknell enquiring about her account transfer. The answer she received was that Towry had not received her signed transfer letter. What this numpty at Bracknell hadnt been told by her superiors was that it had been sent by recorded delivery and had been accepted in late April. A sudden change of tack from Mrs Numpty and she replied that it should be done by the end of next week.

Obviously the client was overjoyed by her treatment and is perfectly happy with being blatantly lied too.

This deliberate obstruction has to be taken seriously by the FSA especially as the instruction to slow the transfer process must have come from Mr Fisher himself.

One last comment . All the transfers i have sent to Towry are for Specie transfer with no intention of churning into other investments.

Just being doing some statistics for my own benefit - £3 million of at least 30 clients' funds have been requested to transfer out of Towry for at least the last couple of months. The bulk of these assets are unit trust/OEICs that pay 0.5% trail commission to Towry. Even though Towry know the clients have requested a transfer Towry have not transferred the funds.

This means that these clients have paid collectively to Towry at least 30 x £58.75 ISA transfer fee = total £1,762 and trail commission over last two month of at least £2,500. Grand total of £3,262.

Towry have benefitted from these fees and commissions whilst knowing the clients wants to transfer. This is not fair.

Even though I have employed staff to exclusively chase these transfers to ensure that the clients funds at least transfer over with the correct amounts I am not charging the clients an annual fee that I could be charging if the assets had fully transferred.

However my patience is running thin. I'm thinking of charging clients extortionate fees for helping them sort out the delayed transfer pointing out to the clients that they could include this expense with the compensation demanded in any complaint they make to Towry.

This issue is about the delay in transfer of funds. Clients, for whatever reason, want to and have a right to, transfer out of Towry. Towry control the funds, Towry are fully responsible for the timely transfer of the funds. Get on with it - or pay the price that clients will demand!

I'm transferring everything in specie too.

I believe my advice I gave to clients who were investing right up to the end of November with me at Edward Jones to be good honest advice.

Unless there are any specific alarm bells upon review, e.g. BP, I don't intend to change anything at this stage.

The only thing I am doing is giving clients back any trail commissions that the funds used to generate because I have moved to an RDR compliant fee model.

I presume this comment answers the 'churning' and 'asset grabbing' comments from earlier

FYI to anyone trying to work out the revenue Towry are 'earning' from those clients trying to transfer, Unit trusts / OEICs are not paying 0.5% trail commission to Towry.

I understand that Edward Jones re-negotiated the trail commission rates upwards, with the various fund companies back in 2009 just ahead of the sale.

Something else that was kept quiet!

Great news from Anonymous 13 - why was this good news not made to clear to clients - why were they told by Towry that nothing was changing - if this is true surely from a compliance point for view the clients would have to be informed - a few phone calls by clients to the fund managers they invest with should soon sort this one out.

To Anonymous 11

Because if it happened, it happened before the sale to Towry.

Could Citywire ask Towry to confirm exactly how many clients portfolios they have actually transferred/re-registered since the end of April when they took over this responsibility. I have been informed I am one of eight hundred+ clients on my network awaiting funds. I've been waiting since November 2009!

It has been Towry's responsibility to ensure all ISA transfers were completed in 30 days from the day they bought the company - not just from 30th April. Edward Jones US was just acting as an agent for Towry after the sale - the key question to ask is what resources/processes did Towry have in place to take over the transfer process on and after the 30th April when the service from Edward Jones in the US ended. As it seems like the transfer process has slowed dramatically since the 30th April I can only assume they had next to nothing in place.

Towry Law confirmed that they received the request on the 4thApril to transfer my ex - Edward Jones funds. I received contract notes for some of these funds stating that settlement dates would be on the 2/3/4 June.Nearly three weeks after these dates there is no sign of the funds at their intended destination. Moreover I have received no further information about the rest of the funds they still hold including some cash. To get this far has necessitated the writing of several letters and making many telephone calls. Promises in writing to the former have been received but have been of a procrastinating nature. Telephone answering has been extremely unsatisfactory : promises of return calls have not been forthcoming and always it has appeared that some unfortunate individual has been given the task of either directing calls to the right area or not knowing which way to turn next. I have been disadvantaged greatly by this unbelievable inefficiency and do not accept the comments made by Andrew Fisher. Nevertheless I am pleased that I have decided not to stay with Towry Law as my experiences and the comments of the last named gentleman suggest to me a most inefficient,badly organised and untrustworthy concern.I would urge all who are similarly affected to contact the FSA with their complaints as I shall now do having been unduly patient up to the present point.

I too can't get hold of Towry I have 5 share certificates missing since the 15th April I requested back in certificate form also my transfer fromTowry is not yet processed the way they treat former E Jones clients is a disgrace

This all helps to damage further a discredited FS industry and leave private investors where and who are the best people to entrust their finances.

My client asked Ed Jones/Towry to start the transfer in February - it has still not happened! And Towry will not respond to emails/phone calls - there seems to be nothing that we can do.......