Angry Edward Jones advisers refuse to give Towry Law a chance

Therapy is available for all aggrieved Edawards Jones at

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/

Therapy is available for all aggrieved Edawards Jones people at

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/

... when they find out how much TL charges through its FoF arrangements? I suspect they will be queueing up to join another bad old commission based adviser. I personally know of one very well to do lady who left TL for Edward Jones because she was unhappy with TL's high fees. I can't wait to show her this story!

I like your sense of humour Tony...Unfortunately it is not so funny for Edward Jones guy's who, coming up to Xmas may find themselves surplus to requirements after trying to build a worthwhile business.

I trust that you have never been faced with possible de-selection from a pool before and if you have, I struggle to see how you find this amusing especially as you may be from our industry and we are all collegues.

You could also spend more time concentrating on your spelling and command of the english language than writing smart arse comments on here.

No doubt you are chartered!!!!!

If it is a genuine attempt to ease emotions and fears at this time for people with and without families then, I appologise and if it is not, maybe you could look up this site.

www.whatgoesaroundcomesaround.com

This book helped me when I found myself in identical circumstances.

Your apology is accepted.

No gentlemen- its not who moved my cheese when it comes to Edward Jones, it's "who moved what I thought was cheese but was in fact a mirage and myth created by partners who wanted an extended work break in the UK all expenses paid, nice house in Kensington, kids at private school etc etc"

Sorry there was never any cheese you were misled!

After reading the citywire article I too was at the meeting with Andrew Fisher.

Andrew come across very well, or well rehearsed? but you would expect that with his industry experience of engagement speaking as well as being in the merger position not once, not twice but at least three times.

The wolf was very good at hiding his concerns and these came out over the evening.

His disgust for other advisor firms was confirmed by him making a clear statement to raise concerns with those advisors in talks with other firms, he also was quick to point out the IFA business was dead in the water in a few years, which again is what alot of advisors are considering.

Is this true?

I am sure all Andrew is interested in is keeping advisors at EJ as long as possible to enable him to have the pick of the crop once he gets the green light from the FSA as early as next Tuesday.

Andrew was very quick to shoot down an experienced advisor in flames when asked how his client would feel when told to pay TL a fee when all his clients have had better performance than any TL fund for no further cost.

A fair question I thought!

Andrew responded by saying that the clients were not right for TL once again and perhaps the advisor was not right for TL as he has taken too higher risk and it's impossible to get returns as high as that without taken greater risk.

I wish my clients were making money

Perhaps TL should look at the quality of fund managers it employs if a doorknocking advisor can blow their fund performance out the water, or perhaps engage the team work comment and learn from him.

I've spoken to the advisor on a few occassions and he knows what he's talking about.

He a funny guy and thick skinned who commented I best start looking for another job then, it did make me chuckle.

I don't get the fees arguement at all.

Isn't an intial fee the same as entering funds when a client invests and isn't an annual charge similar to churning an entire portfolio once a year every year?.

My BOA won't be happy with my feedback as it's clear that it's not just them that are likely to be out of work.

Andrew warned us not to crunch the numbers, it does not take a genius.

£2.9 Billion managed by 108 advisors at TL

£1.5 Billion managed by 425 advisors at EJ

I estimate around 50 advisors with remain in 12 months.

Slightly shocking was the offices will go if you can't get more than 10 advisors in and changes could take place in as little as 3 weeks

All in all very wooley answers from the wolf in sheeps clothing

Comments from other advisors that were present would be welcome as most disappeared to tell their families to prepare for a Christmas without a Turkey.

It appears that everyone is up in arms about this and understandably so with Andrew Fisher keeping his head down and dodging the bullets and the few TL advisers that have joined the party have vanished just as quickly as they have been unable to defend their remuneration position when challanged.

Come on guys, speak up. Let everyone hear your defence of the annual management fee charged to funds under management contributing to your annual targets.

Purely fee based my AR*E!

Smoke & Mirrors Asset Management more like.

A fee is only a fee when it suits TL despite the fact that it's deducted from the clients' investment at the outset and then on an ongoing basis as an annual fund management charge. And if that's not enough TL also charges an annual Premier Care Fee on top for providing "god only knows what service". These charges also go towards the advisers' annual targets which are high to cover their high salaries which can be reduced if they don't bring in enough business. This allows them to use the "I'm salaried and not commission based" catchphrase in the same manner as the Equitable Life salesmen did in the 80's & 90's before that house of cards collpased.

If any IFA takes a percentage it's deemed to be commission in the eyes of Andrew Fisher and therefore demonised despite the fact that the initial and annual charges/fees/commission applied by TL pay for the inflated salary of himself (and the other senior mnagement within this organisation) which is only superceded by his over inflated ego.

To all the EJ advisers, my advice is you have already built your own wedge of cheese (i.e your clients who trust you) so don't let the TL machine steal this from you.

Find a local IFA that you can work with/merge with and if possible work towards building up your business as you were doing.

Hilarious really, that they're still paying huge sums of money to dominate the first 2 pages of Google when you search on 'edward jones'... and all they have to boast about is this dubious "Best 100 Companies to Work For" entry... which was always utter crap...

I worked there for 4 years and hated the first 6 months and the last 18 months of it - everyone else I knew hated it too and we all left last year. We never could figure out who was voting for this suspect award - presumably the BOAs - getting paid £15-20k for a basic admin position, largely data-entry and a bit of reception work where similar jobs would pay £10-14k I suppose is a deal for them.

Anyone notice EJ never won any industry awards voted on by the CLIENTS... the firm I moved to wins all of those year after year... and doesn't make half the song-and-dance of it.... certainly doesn't pay obscene amounts of money to Google to fill up search pages about it.

But then the one good thing the Boys from St. Louis were good at in the UK was blowing money... and millions of it, every month, for 11 years. Unbelievable. Like the comment about the extended working holiday in the UK for US General Partners, never thought of it that way, but you're right - they had some fantastic lodgings in the most expensive areas.

I still think TK had his heart in the right place, but agree with various other comments about the GPs just not listening to the troops that it wasn't working and things needed to be different in the UK. Oh well, it's the GPs who paid the price... £220 million less in the bonus pot to be shared around.

Ride that, cowboys!

Seems to me that TL is essentially a CEO with big ego & share options backed by venture capitalists (Palamon) - all out to line their pockets at the potential expense of clients & those unlucky staff who don't have share options (or indeed a job if they're surplus to requirements).

Plan appears to be to buy up assets at a reasonable price and spit out unwanted clients and staff along the way. Coupled with high initial and annual charges based on AUM, it's a nice little formula if Mr Fisher can actually generate a profit (something he had a problem doing in last accounts) and PE ratios for the sector recover. He and the venture capitalists can then offload the company, no doubt pocketing a very tidy sum in the process.

I've no problem with these guys making money, but sadly it'll probably be at the expense of clients who've been smooth talked into buying what appear to be rather expensive funds of funds.

Given the venture capital involvement I wouldn't be surprised to see a change of ownserhip over the next few years. This too is potentially worrying for clients - I'm struggling to think of a large IFA that's gone through a change of ownership for the better! (you only need look at Chase de Vere, Bates etc. for examples of where it's gone wrong...).

I've no doubt that TL is better than some in this industry, but ultimately it's more a slick sales machine and asset gathering operation than high end wealth manager.

If only more clients would open their eyes...

Firstly, I agree with Anon666 and would suggest that whatever connections EJ advisors have they should be talking with them now and decline to join TL.

Hitler was once quoted as saying "the bigger the lie, the more people will follow it".

There once was/is a company who had 5 funds: UK, N.Am, Euro, Japan, Income. This was their only 5 funds and, allegedly, whatever the clients needs or aims were, the advice was always to utilise one or more of these 5 funds.

These 5 funds represented that companies in house investment solution, and their advisors were incentivsed, allegedly, via targets etc to place as much client money into them.

The company took an initial cost of entry into these funds which was deducted from the initial fund value and, allegedly, called commission in exchange for providing the companies investment solution/product to the client.

That company was, allegedly, CIS.

There is another company who also has 5 funds. A little more complicated and in effect a FoF. These FoF also come couched in intelligent sounding phrases like ' portfolio, diversity, asset allocation, weightings, management oversight and risk management', allegedly.

Whatever the clients needs or aims are the advice is, allegedly, to place their assets into 1 or more of these funds; subject to minimum entry levels and, allegedly, sometimes after a rudimentary planning report.

These 5 funds represent that companies in house investment solution, and their advisors are , allegedly, incentivised by targets etc to place as much money into them.

The company takes an initial cost of entry into these funds which is deducted from the initial fund value, and allegedly, called a "fee" for providing the companies investment solution and "service", but not their investment "product".

That company is, allegedly, TL.

Which brings me to this weeks essay subject:

Potato, Tomato - CIS, TL; Is there a difference really?

(Examiners comment: 1 word answers on a postcard are more than sufficient to gain full marks )

that was very entertaining!

To the EJ advisers who have had the pleasure of attending one of Mr (call me Andrew) Fisher's presentations, did he have anything to say on the matter of who "owns" these clients as far as he is concerned?

To those who haven't read some of my previous comments, be very careful on this point as if you move the clients money into one of the TL funds then decide the whole TL game isn't for you and leave, you may find yourself on the receiving end of one of the letters from TL threatening all kinds of litigation if you try to take your clients with you.

Try calling Andrew then and see what he says!. If he will speak to you I suspect the best you can hope for is **** OFF!

To Anon 667, welcome to the party!

I don't know any EJ advisers though one did know on the door of one of my clients this year without any success I'm pleased to say but I accept and respect their ambition. Knock on enough doors and ye shall succeed.

I have never worked for TL but have worked for one of the companies they took over when they were JS&P and for several years now I have watched the TL machine gobble up companies and spit out advisers for several years now and I really feel a degree of sympathy for the EJ advisers who must be going through turmoil right now.

As "Anon - TL - Ego & share options?" indicated, TL is backed by Venture Capitalists and anyone who knows anything about VC's, they have one sole focus which is to make money at almost any cost.

Colateral damage is the order of the day and any EJ adviser who doesnt have enough clients with combined multi-million pound assets which they can shoe-horn into one of their in house broker funds should be seriously concerned about their future.

TL is not a stockbroker so forget that service. Encourage the clients to offload share portfolios and invest in a TL broker fund and they'll actively manage it for you.

Why not just give it to Standard Life, Aviva or Jupiter or Schroders etc and stick it in one of their managed funds. They'll do the exact same.

I understand many EJ advisers will be getting approaches from other IFA's which may appear vulturous but as a relatively successful and I believe compliant IFA with a newly opened EJ office I can see why some EJ advisers would be hesitant.

They probably don't know if it's New Year or New York right now.

I have not approached the local EJ adviser as I have enough on my plate running my own business but to all the EJ advisers I would suggest you consider your options carefully as time is not something you have on your side.

This is unfortunately a fact of life so make your decision soon. Look at what's important which should be your clients. If you look after them, you're more than half way to providing a solution to your problem.

This may be an opportunity for a merged business which could be mutually beneficial.

As Andrew said at the weekend, discussion and debate are always good!

He's entitled to his opinion and we're entitled to ours.

Correction

"but as a relatively successful and I believe compliant IFA with a newly opened EJ office local to me"

And would TL's reaction be any different to the arrogant little sh&&ts at Canary Wharf when advisers leave and their clients want to go with them?

They spent years telling us that it's all about relationships and to offer an exceptional service to our clients which I feel me and my BOA did very well- and when I left, many of those clients made contact with me, they had my mobile number so its not rocket science really-this job is all about relationships and trust, Jones have shown their integrity or lack of it over the past week-yet they chose to demonise everyone who left them -what a shower- all I can do is rub my hands now with unashamed glee, as their true colours are nailed to the mast.

You clealy saw the light and did what any sensible adviser would do.

Our friends at Canary Wharf are not really interested in whether a client stays with you when you move on or remains with your previous employer.

A strong client/adviser relationship is priceless.......for everything else there's Mastercard.

The real concern is not for the advisors but for the clients who probably find themselves on the merry go round once again.

This is the same old story repeating itself time after time. The big take over and then probably go bust. We have seen it all before.

Boy am I cynical about our industry.

Am I some what naive, but as part of their (FSA) approval for Towry Law to take over Edwards Jones the client interest is placed high on the agenda.

I would assume that Mr Fisher would have to give assurances that client will not be forced into his model .If the client does not want buy in to the Towry Law model (whatever that is! )That they (Towry Law) would have to make alternative arrangements with another advise to protect the client If I was an Edward Jones adviser that is the question I would be asking the FSA help desk an behalf of my client base .

There have been a lot of comments about the financial advisers, the BOA's and the clients but no one has mentioned us muppets here in Head Office (Home Office).

Firstly we are all dragged into a meeting on Friday morning and told by a nearly tearful TK (not sure what he's crying about as he still has a job, salary and a bonus at the end of it - actually probably at the fact that his all expenses paid holiday in the UK is coming to an end and he will have to pay his own mortgage and kids private school fee's) that we have sold the company and are pulling out of the UK then told to go back to our desks worrying about our future.

Later in the day we have a meeting with Mr (call me Andrew) Fisher where he seems to hype up TL a lot saying the usual that nothing will change for the client...what about us and our source of income??? What was also hilarious was when an employee mentioned what the clients will think about not having a branch on their high street Fisher said it won't make a difference at all and was pointless and asked TK's opinion which TK then agreed with!? Does this not go against everything he has been preaching over the last 10/12 years, an adviser in their own community supporting their neighbours and family - obviously a load of bull!

We have been left completely in the dark with the only information that we will be having informal interviews with god knows who for very limited positions which will probably be in bracknell...BRACKNELL where the hell is that!? Talk about a nothing changing except the city in which you work, probably your pay package, the way you do business, the clients and their holdings, your work colleagues and the knowledge that most of the people you have worked with daily who you respect and count as friends are going to be out on the street (that’s if you are lucky enough to get the job!!).

And I find it funny that ever since I started they have been saying how 'we have never made anyone redundant since the company started' and I am sure conveniently they will continue to state this because if they sell us all to TL who then make us redundant it will not go against the EJ record….what a joke!

I feel this is typical to EJ, not listening to anyone, thinking they know best, shafting both the employees and clients to benefit themselves. Over the last 4 years I have worked here I have seen that their ignorance and blinkered vision of work in the UK has resulted in us being in this position, we at Home Office stated loudly and persistently that the way they worked was not working and things needed to change but were ignored. All EJ and TL are left with now is...angry employees faced with no job 2 months before xmas, clients who are going to leave by the shed load and an industry that is going to be knocked by another scandal caused by greedy, money hungry fat cats!

Thanks EJ for nothing!!

Rarely have i seen such vitriole directed towards one man. As an outsider totally unaffected by whatever happens to Towry Law and Edward Jones it does seem as though Mr Fisher is doing his best to avoid answering staight forward questions.

Surely it is time for Mr Fisher to come clean and answer his critics over Towry Law's fees/charges.

Can he truthfully say Towry Law receives no commission? What happens to all the trail commission on business novated to Towry Law? Or, are perfectly good investments churned into Towry Law's funds?

I have just spoken with a reporter at Citywire covering this story and allegedly Andrew Fisher has claimed TL has an offering of 11,000 portfolios.

This seems to be a few more than the 5 portfolios that most of us understood were available to TL clients.

Does anyone have any information on the other 10,995 portfolios?

Having experienced Mr Fisher and his team when they took over the old Towry Law in 1996 I have massive empathy with all Edward Jones advisers. Experience says that Mr Fishers words are hollow and his intention purely one of self-interest in building a FUM asset base to then float or sell to line his own pocket and those of his cronies with share options. I now am delighted to work for the UK's Premier Wealth Manager where people are treated like adults and not strung along on the promises of a management team whose only interest is their own. Towry Law and their owners Palamon are nothing more than asset strippers hiding as saviours of the UK Financial Services Industry. Most people have seen through this by now - all Edward Jones people will soon do the same. I even suspect that you will have been subjected to the same well-rehearsed dross that we originally received by Fishers tame parrot Andy Cowan - another of the management team with his snout firmly in the cash trough. Finally as for Fisher claiming that advisers don't "own" clients, who does the man think he is? NOBODY "OWNS" A CLIENT - people are free to make a choice. My advice to all Edward Jones advisers is don't let yourselves be owned either - make the wise choice and leave for an adult business that others aspire to be part of and thrive there.

When will the likes of Andrew Fisher ever learn. Nobody owns clients. If the advisers dont stay with TL (and 90% will leave) their clients will follow.

Ever heard of the film 'A Bridge Too Far' Andrew. You may win the war eventually but you've lost this battle. All you have is 300 unwanted leases. Good luck!

Any EJ advisor who wishes to continue to advise his or her own clients without corporate bollocks and theft of the kind proposed by Towry Law please e-mail me on simon@simonkershaw.com

Does anyone out there have any in-depth knowledge of the employee rights under NUPE regs. Or do you know an employment law specialist, or have legal cover on your home insurance?

I, like a lot of other Jones employees am not impressed with this move. From my reading of the basics of the regs, it would suggest that this transfer is far from like for like, as there will likely be changes to profession, (no longer stockbroking), geography, (most will be working many miles from their current location) as well as remuneration, (commission to fee-based).

I have only been employed by Jones for 6 months and am pretty sure that TL will not be interested in employing me a day longer than they have to. Besides what I have heard of this organisation all seems to be very negative and I don't think I want to be employed by them.

I was enticed away from a secure job, (if there is such a thing nowadays) to join EJ.

The primary reasons I accepted this contract was that I wanted to build a local business and reduce my travelling time by 15 hours per week. Crucial to that was the USP of the stockbroking service to set me apart from the fierce competiton, (banks, b/s and local well established IFA businesses). The final enticement of 15 months salary based on my gross earnings in my previous position, was the safety net I needed to take this step into the uknown. On hindsight I should have listened to the old saying "if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is"

As this transfer looks a million miles from the Jones model, I feel I should have been offered the option to have my contract "bought out". I don't know if I can challenge this, but would expect to have a lot more clout if it were a group claim from say 100+ employees.

I note that someone has opened an e-mail address where you can post any concens or comments. Having had the misfortune of being made redundant 3 times in the last 12 years, (that makes me sound like a Jonah!) I urge employees to stick together. Let's see just how good an employer EJ is and challenge this transfer collectively. If they have an ounce of decency, they will offer all staff a reasonably compensated way out, rather than passing the buck to a bunch of asset stripping hatchetmen.

I know which outcome I would bet on!