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Arise Sir Hector: Sants receives knighthood in New Year Honours

by Alex Steger on Dec 29, 2012 at 17:14

Arise Sir Hector: Sants receives knighthood in New Year Honours

Former chief executive of the Financial Services Authority (FSA) Hector Sants has been knighted in the New Year Honours list.

Sants (pictured) gained the award for ‘services to financial services and regulation’.

He said: ‘This award is a testament to the hard work of everyone at the FSA during the crisis, their willingness to learn lessons and to bring about the changes necessary.’

Sants’ knighthood has attracted criticism from politicians and former bankers who pointed to the FSA’s track record under his tenure.

Paul Moore, ex-HBOS head of risk who blew the whistle on the lack of controls at the bank, told the Daily Telegraph: ‘This is extraordinary. Hector Sants was part of a system that clearly failed. For most people that doesn’t mean you are rewarded with a knighthood.’

In January the Treasury Select Committee criticised the FSA for its handling of regulation during the credit crunch and accused it of being ‘asleep at the wheel’.

It is the second time Sants has attracted criticism since announcing his resignation from the regulator in March. Earlier this month Barclays appointed Sants to the newly created role of head of compliance and government and regulatory relations on a reported pay package of £3 million.

Sants became FSA chief executive in July 2007 after three years heading its wholesale markets wing.

He began his career at stockbroker Phillips & Drew, later taking senior positions at investment banks UBS and Credit Suisse.

Matthew Oakeshott, former Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, told the Telegraph: ‘He was a very solid food manufacturing analyst at Phillips & Drew, but does he really need a knighthood now on top of his £3 million package at Barclays?’

277 comments so far. Why not have your say?

richard john brydon

Dec 29, 2012 at 19:05

Absolutely shocking. He was very well paid at the FSA for doing a job badly. He hasn't even gone to the office for months even though he was still getting a fat cheuqe each month. He then lands another very highly paid job with his one of his bank cronies and now this. The whole thing stinks.

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Man in Black

Dec 30, 2012 at 09:09

So much for getting rid of rewards for failure then.

Sants' actions and omissions brought misery to millions of people.

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abtfinman

Dec 30, 2012 at 10:46

I have applied to start a government petition to get this award cancelled. Apparently it takes 7 days to verify it. Once it is active I shall list it here for all to sign.

This man has ruined our industry and, in my opiniom, illegally removed income and livelyhoods from many hard working and honest people.

Posted by: Alyn Beattie

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Phil Sipocz via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 10:52

Shameful disgrace. Corruption in this country is alive and well.

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WGFS

Dec 30, 2012 at 10:55

Unbelievable ....

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Phil Bill

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:01

Yes, a disgrace. His lack of ability and oversight cost the country Billions, but still he is rewarded. The old boy, establishment system is alive and well. I spend time in Africa, and there is a great awareness of corruption there. Somehow we have become a more corrupt society than most 3rd world countries. Just more subtle!

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Kate Brookes

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:07

Gobsmacked. This is absolutely shameful. How on earth can they justify that? There must be far more worthy people out there that deserve that kind of recognition. He must have some friends in high places, that's all I can think.

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Smokey via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:07

What a joke! Who actually advise's the Queen on this ?

Let's reward failure!!

Disgusting!!!

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Welshman via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:20

If I had one I would send it back.

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Padraig44

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:25

Sants was mediocre at all times beginning with the very average P&D at a time when Research was infant and many other houses took the laurels.

Is this perhaps the still-warm knighthood worn without lustre by his old pal Fred Goodwin? There is a quaint circularity here that sees failure not only beget failure but reward itself.

In fairness in the land of the blind , they say, the one-eyed man is king so eventually Lord Sants of Monacle will bestride the greasy pole having left a trail of failure and chaos but never knowingly taken a backward step in his advance to glory.

UBS, Credit Suisse and now Barclays , the roll call of once-great names now linked mostly to malfeasance and graft; where more -fitting home for this "errant" knight unless perchance the Lords' to join my Noble Lords Myners , Green and others?

Perhaps , after Barclays and before the ermine, he could fit in a stint at our great ratings agencies and complete the set.

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peter davies

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:46

I'm afraid the New Years Honours list this year has been shocking. You get an award for doing your job - and a Sir, thats the top award - for a very dubious performance at the FSA - I find this incredible, just as do for giving Bradley Wiggins a Sir. Maybe if he does 40 years Charity work on top of winning Olympic Gold and the TDF. My faith with this regime has long passed, so its no real surprise I guess.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 30, 2012 at 11:58

If these are our leaders leave now Britain is a lost cause

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John stirling via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:01

i think the answer is to coin a phrase, 'doing a sants' or being a bit 'sants' to mean being rubbish, but getting away with it, and ending up with unjustified rewards.

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Dominic Thomas via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:04

Premature adulation.

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MattR

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:05

Absolutely stunned when i saw the headline- thought it was an 'April Fools'!!! A complete joke.

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Scotty McJock

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:13

At best surely highly insensitive to give such an award: at worst downright wrong. Agree about the denigration of the whole award system. Time for a rethink methinks.

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RichardR

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:15

Pretty soon he'll have a sword very close to his neck....... fingers crossed

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Jenny N via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:20

Shameful. This country is corrupt.

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Robin Melley

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:30

Has someone put an "i"by mistake?

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Kate Brookes

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:35

@Robin Melley

Did you mean that the headline should read Hector Sants gets knotted?

Far more appropriate IMO

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NeilG via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:35

Unbelievable! Possibly even more appalling than Fred the Shred. Hopefully the powers that be will come to their senses about Sants like they eventually did about Goodwin.

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Iain Black

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:48

Absolute disgrace.

Alyn get your petition up as quickly as possible, I for one will be delighted to sign it and hopefully the handful of Advisers that are left in the industry after Sants' regin will do so too.

Reward for failure, no, reward for removing the livelihood from thousands!!

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Jenny N via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:51

I never thought I would say I am embarrassed to be British.

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forestbhoy via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:52

Just bloody shameful.This country cant even pretend NOT to be corrupt anymore.There will be a straw very soon that does break the camels back.....then maybe this country will represent the majority,not the minority.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 30, 2012 at 12:56

What is encouraging is that there are still IFA's out there to make comments

hopefully next week as well

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Iain Black via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:04

Also, I have banked with Barclays for 20 year, but the first job of 2013 will be to find a new Bank.

If Barclays trust Sants I don't and my money is not going to anywhere near that man!!!

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Ian Ashleigh

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:09

what a predictable outpouring of vitriol and bile. A Tory award given to a Tory by a Tory Government.

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P A Williams

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:13

Reward for failure in the broadest sense including the crass incompentence and ignorance of all those politicians and senior civil sevants who presided over his stint in office.

It obvious he was promised a gong for keeping his mouth shut and going quietly when asked - that is how it works.

This only reflects the rotten establishment that still presides in this country that is slowly and surely being eroded but is still in control, I'm afraid. Globalisation will one day see this sort of reward for failure consigned to history.

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James Clancy

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:20

What can you do The “establishment” is truly in charge. Sants has now become one of them. While I totally disagree with the award he has received there is very little that can be done.”

Even his much publicised “bonus "Charitable donation smacks of the establishment

Recently a successful business man who runs one of the most sucessful and profitable business in the North East donated £500,000 to save the local post office from closing, because he cares for his local communtiy He now donates most of his wealth for the greater good of resaerch and devlopment to help British Industry.

To me this is a man who should be rewarded a knighthood.

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peter davies

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:23

Hector Sants is a very wealthy man. He has probably received a golden handshake from the FSA and secured a rather large salary from Barclays. So quite an astute man it has to be said. Whilst we all question the knighthood - me included - he's earned a tremendous amount of money over the last 4/5 years - I guess way more than anyone posting comments on here. A case of success from failure............................I wish I could do that!!

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Twickers

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:24

see link below for "end of world" prediction/ except it was mis-interpreted like

the bankers/politicians did with economy/ and Sants did with FSA/ what came

to an end was the structure of society/ crooks appointed Lords and Knights of

the realm / instead of a horse/ride a bike/ instead of good deeds/ simply make

a mess of what your doing/ the rewards "my son" are beyond belief.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/end-of-the-world-2012_n_2344389.html

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MH via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:25

He can't be a Tory can he, remembering what he told the Fsa prior to the last general election! It's very sad that the old boys crooked net work is still alive and kicking! Lets have a revolution as we all no the best people in society are those not In power, because we don't or can't kiss ass to the extent these people have to get where they are today!

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Julian Stevens

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:53

Says Sants: ‘This award is a testament to the hard work of everyone at the FSA during the crisis, their willingness to learn lessons and to bring about the changes necessary.’

Yet, in January this year the Treasury Select Committee criticised the FSA for its handling of regulation during the credit crunch and accused it of being ‘asleep at the wheel’.

Either the TSC is completely wrong or Sants is painting a considerably less than true picture of what the FSA has achieved under his leadership.

For example, what necessary changes has the FSA brought about in the wake of the credit crisis? For heaven's sake, it hasn't even managed to come up with a code to curb the 'Make your targets or you'll be in big trouble' sales culture endemic across the retail side of the banks and building societies.

And, apart from requiring the banks to hold higher levels of regulatory capital, what proposals have been put forward by the FSA to ensure better corporate governance of what the banks do and how they do it?

As far as I'm concerned, by failing to outlaw basing intermediary remuneration on the traditional 3% + ½%, the FSA has even flunked the transition from commission to adviser charging on the sale of retail investment products. SJP's no fee option post-RDR remuneration model bears ample testament to this.

Clearly, Sants' knighthood is a result of connections in high places rather than quantifiable achievements. What next? Dame Sheila Nicoll?

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Eddie Mac

Dec 30, 2012 at 13:56

This man should have been charged with gross negligence. He was in charge of regulating the UK banks before the credit crisis and had a responsability to ensure that the banks were sufficiently capitalised. He failed miserably in his duties! The most undeserved knighthood I can think of ever. I can only think that they decided to give knighthoods for people responsible for something never achieved in over 100 years - Tour de France for Sir Bradley and the failure of a UK bank for that trumpet.

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Robin Melley

Dec 30, 2012 at 14:03

@kate Brookes

Arise

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John Phillips

Dec 30, 2012 at 14:09

I guess he must of sold his sole to the devil to get to where he is with so little ability.

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You must be joking

Dec 30, 2012 at 14:17

Hmmm...

Sir Jimmy

Sir Fred (rescinded)

and now...

Sir Hector

That's some honourable company!

Given The Queen's recent comments regarding the FSA:

"didn't have the teeth" and "People got a bit lax"

Maybe HRH is planning a slip of the sword in a "that'll teach you to not do it again" sort of way!!

;-)

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Pierre Land

Dec 30, 2012 at 14:26

Can't belief this , it's like orginiced crime , nuts

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michael bates

Dec 30, 2012 at 14:36

Who is responsible for proposing the knighthood? The comments above say it all. Hopefully it will be withdrawn sooner or later.

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DP's IFA

Dec 30, 2012 at 15:20

More deserving of a Jim fixed it for me medal! As he never did anything except broke it. Don't suppose Barclays will get many actions in 2013?

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Ross Foxall via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 15:35

Beyond disgusted at this.... I somewhat feel my respect for our nation and Queen is further lessening in credibility as time passes. Earlier this year a surgeon saved my 6mth old sons life after 7 hrs open heart surgery and has been awarded a CBE for his life's work. Very much deserved.

Let me ask how many life's Mr Sants has saved? I would suggest his disasterous tenure has ruined lives not saved them. I hope he feels utterly ashamed when he kneels to receive it.

I will happily sign the petition.

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Simon Mansell

Dec 30, 2012 at 15:38

Membership has its privileges and we are but mere pawns to be cast aside and destroyed for whatever agenda suits. This is the final insult to an industry in the process of being dismantled partly by Sir Hector.

In contemporary usage, dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state.

The FSA was asleep on their watch when the banks came close to meltdown, they failed virtually every regulatory task set and their RDR may yet bring the industry to its knees. In spite of all of this we now have Sir Hector.

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paul hart

Dec 30, 2012 at 16:18

It appears my original comment has been removed. Well just let me sign that petition. Or am I not allowed to say that either?

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paul hart

Dec 30, 2012 at 16:21

He won't feel ashamed - just full of glee and salivating at the thought of all that money! He'll be a cheerful old Hector!

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Julian Stevens

Dec 30, 2012 at 16:33

According to https://www.gov.uk/honours/overview:-

The honours system recognises people who’ve made great achievements in public life and people who’ve committed themselves to serving Britain. They will usually have made life better for other people or been outstanding at what they do. People get honours for achievements like:

* making a [positive] difference to their community or field of work

* enhancing Britain’s reputation

* long-term voluntary service

* innovation and entrepreneurship

* changing things, with an emphasis on achievement

* improving life for people less able to help themselves

* displaying moral courage and vision in making and delivering tough choices.

On quite which of those criteria Hector Sants qualified for his knighthood I must confess I'm somewhat hard put to fathom. Thoughts anyone?

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abtfinman

Dec 30, 2012 at 16:34

To Arthur Schopenhauer.

There will be one less IFA as of 01/01/2013 me. That is why I am happy to start the petition. Out of F troops clutches.

Please will you all bookmark this thread. When the petition becomes live I will post a link here.

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Trevor Whiting

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:12

I'm not really too amazed at such negative comment. Aware of some of the issues it appears to me that the good outweighs the bad. It's easy to feel personally affected by other people's actions but remember Mr Sants did not run an autocracy. Blame the system if you like but why not show just a sign of a congratulatory message to the recipient. Well done Hector.

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Kate Brookes

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:25

@Trevor Whiting

I can only assume that you were asleep during the banking crisis.....much like Hector in fact.

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paul hart

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:36

:I'm not really too amazed at such negative comment. Aware of some of the issues it appears to me that the good outweighs the bad. It's easy to feel personally affected by other people's actions but remember Mr Sants did not run an autocracy. Blame the system if you like but why not show just a sign of a congratulatory message to the recipient. Well done Hector'

UNBELIEVABLE! Or are you being sarcastic, Trevor?

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Padraig44

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:37

Clever Trevor

Your follow up post shall surely enlighten us on the quantum and nature of "the good outweighs the bad". I notice that you are "aware of some of the issues" and this must reflect an inside track to which most of us churlish ingrates are not privy. We, sadly, have only seen half the story. In reality Sants has been a Pimpernel-like figure , covertly doing only good , reining -in the worst excesses of his FSA lackeys and otherwise delivering beneficent results.

The third post would then explain how the CEO can be excused for the failings of his company particularly if said CEO reaps reward for its success.

Sadly I admit we have cheaply hectored Hector ( without I own, the right to use his first name) and , it must be said, only a very few of us are knights!

Floreat Eatandswillia!

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Trevor Whiting

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:38

Fully aware of the banking crisis, if you read my text I'm aware of some of the issues. However as outsiders. Myself and those above are not aware of all issues and pass judgement without knowing all the facts. I merely cause for balance in this silly argument.

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Peter Fox

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:41

Barclay customers BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID

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paul hart

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:53

It's the staff who should be afraid. As a Barclays customer myself I can quite easily go elsewhere.

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rick atkinson via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 17:59

Good job agent sants. Ifa competition exterminated. Banks rule the world. Now return to barclays to collect your rew£rd.

Talk about kicking an industry when its down!

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Trevor Whiting via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 18:19

From a personal viewpoint Paul, serious. Also, remember you can't fight Count Hall, there is only one winner. Remember that as your troponin levels rise, making such damaging comments damaged who?

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 30, 2012 at 18:23

Banking crisis explained for the uninitiated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5QwKEwo4Bc

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John Hinson

Dec 30, 2012 at 18:51

I will sign any petition going to get this award taken off this disreputable man who has ruined financial services and let millions down

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Julian Stevens

Dec 30, 2012 at 19:55

Perhaps The Black Knight might be an appropriate moniker ~ one attired in decidedly less than shining armour.

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Padraig44

Dec 30, 2012 at 20:00

Clever Trevor

Increasingly bemused old chap.

Your warning to Paul smacks of the apparatchik concerns of the Stalinist purge.

Presume you mean County Hall? Bad things ............ Good men remain silent etc etc.

Whack the petition over chaps

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David Hatton

Dec 30, 2012 at 20:09

How to de-value the most prestigious award in the land, give it to the person who treats the TSC with contempt & ruins the nations saving culture.

Unbelievable, yet a shining example & guiding light for all the inept ones out there that you can get rewarded for failure.

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Trevor Whiting

Dec 30, 2012 at 20:24

Correction, County Hall!

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an elder one

Dec 30, 2012 at 20:30

The corruption gene exists throughout the people, wherever they be, the switch that controls its function is a bit wonky in some!

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 30, 2012 at 21:44

My memory may to some extent fail me here (and it was admittedly a long time ago - probably 45 years or so), but I seem to recall a BBC television programme about the Russian composer Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971) presented by the English conductor Bernard Keeffe (1925- ) in which, when asked about his religious stance, Stravinsky said something along the lines of "I believe in God because it's so ridiculous"; the pertinence of this here (if any) may be decided or not by those who may choose to do so or not...

That said, I wonder whether the principal train station in Barcelona (Sants, for those who don't already know) has hereby had some kind of tourist attraction status conferred upon it and whether, if so, the outcome of this might help to some degree to alleviate Spain's grave economic woes...

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David Chubb via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 23:30

Outrageous joke surely? Please tell me that this is, or it is a really bad dream.

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Stephen Atwell via mobile

Dec 30, 2012 at 23:38

Ladies and gents, it would appear that we are all against this ludicrous award but let's keep it civil. The best way to protest is to sign the petition and speak as one.

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Caledonia Consultancy via mobile

Dec 31, 2012 at 07:58

Failure reward - another Sir Fred

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Annoymous

Dec 31, 2012 at 08:36

I do not normally reply to this stuff hence why I have no user name - but I am called Kevin and I have a really good relationship with my MP

I have emailed him this strand or what ever you call it because like you all when I read Sants was awarded for his total lack of success I was shocked too so I have made complained to my MP Andrew Bridgen and I will happily become involved in any document which voices our approval in a proper and appropriate manner.

I have no beef with the RDR idea, not saying its perfect but the basis of it is appropriate. But I have a beef with how the FSA behaves and this man was CEO before and during the banking crisis and has a banking background. Economies are suffering because of poor regulation and he is the head - so should take the blame - simple example - QPR are rubbish but the team does not get sacked, the manager does

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 08:48

66 comments all peeing into the wind.. what are YOU going to do about it Any positive suggestions??

Happy New Year

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Ian Ashleigh

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:11

I've not seen such bile and vitriol since the days of Gordon Brown as Prime Minister. Never mind, we can all have a party when the Wicked Witch of Grantham finally croaks, what was the song from the Wizard of Oz? ...

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vincent thompson

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:12

This is staggering,almost beyond belief.Naively or otherwise I used the contact NO.10 email facility and explained my objections to Sants knighthood and asked ( naively again possibly) who proposed this fiasco.

Looking forward to signing the petition,

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:20

While Rome burns did you see the FT today Is it that every product ( presumably with the exception of Barclays ) is to be a UCIS

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4c07824a-501f-11e2-a231-00144feab49a.html#axzz2GcTUEVdw

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Delboy10 via mobile

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:56

How can this be possible?

I have had to spend time and money simply to remain in a position of earning a legitimate living in a job I have done competently for years.

He has been paid for doing nothing since April after he told his bosses to bugger off when they dared to suggest that he had got rdr wrong, then gets rewarded by the Banks for his services to them and now gets the thanks of the humble nation for his contribution.

Just point me to the petition , words cannot describe the sheer appalling, lack of faith in the system.

George Osborne, you better not have had a hand in this, if you have it will come back to haunt you.

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Phil Bill

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:06

Kevin @8.36.

Great comment, and matches my own views. The jury is still out on RDR, and it could be a great success. But we don't know.

We DO know that the FSA failure to oversee the Banks, due to a belief they were the 'Good Guys' was a massive contributory factor in the Financial crisis, the effects of which are still with us, and will be for years. Hector was in charge then, created that culture, and is now joining a bank. Again, the FSA has ignored the Cadbury rules on good governance, and that is just wrong. So yes, a petition and letters to MP's are a good idea, but let's pick the right fight. If we are seen as just 'whinging' that 'Hector took our commission away', as the media will see it, we will simply look silly. If we say that 'Hector presided over a regime that failed and made all taxpayers poorer as a result', we may have an impact of sorts.

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Mike Hardy

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:22

I am absolutely furious about this. It just shows what load of b****cks the honours system is. Sants should be doing community service not getting honoured. I have writing to my MP in protest and urge all of you to do the same. This is so outrageous I simply cant believe it. Please let me know if there is an action group being formed.

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Nick

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:28

I agree Mike. This is an absolute disgrace and he mustn't get away with it! We must get it rescinded. Who agreed to him receiving it? That's where we should start.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:32

@Phil

RDR has never presented the case for wider advice being achieved by tinkering with the remuneration system.

There is no objective test of the "success" of the RDR policy and the organisation that championed it will not exist when we look back on what was done. The education was a very worthwhile initiative

Few IFA's make more than the corner shop I guess that the increased costs will be enough to kill many even if they retain similar turnover.The debtor days alone will ensure capital adequacy becomes a further issue to consider

I agree with you that we should focus the criticism and keep it construcitive despite the provocation....but then who too? no one is listening

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Mark Ferris

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:33

A previous petition regarding Mr Sants is already available regarding his failure as CEO. It has a massive 3 signatures on it. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

If everyone gets their clients to take a look at signing a new petition we may be able to make this more effective. Let's see how organised we can be for once.

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Incompetent regulators via mobile

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:35

@trevor whiting

You don't know me but I know of you through a very good source. You're just as slimy as Sants. Youre from the same mould. That's why you like this type.

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Mike Hardy

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:41

Hi Mark

Please email me mikehardy@me.com or call me on 07764 199202

Thanks

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Ian Lees

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:48

Given that ordinary Fred had his " night hood " removed - this honour demonstrates the worth of honours across the board ( or boardrooms ) and devalues the worth of honours strategically placed on some olympians - to embellish the tardy - and the failures of regulation, regulators in the destruction of savings> It does demonstrates how sininster - and strategic the handing out of her majesty's - knight hoods really is - and in particular their worth - under the failed governemtns of the people. To give and honour to a good cyclist and a failed regulator - demonstrates the meaningless worth of honours nowadays. It is like night and day ! Where to next ? Are honours to be able to be purchased with a packet of corny flakes ? Or has it already happened. Give it back Hector ! at least retrieve some credibilty or sanity ( no pun intended ) - by returning this honour - to someone who has actually earned it and - deserves it for the right reasons !

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:49

Use the same petition it now has 4

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abtfinman

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:50

Good to see the support the petition will have once it becomes live. We need 100,000 signatures for the chance to get a debate in parliment.

The wording of the petition concentrates on his faliures, including his snub of theTSC, not the removal of commission.

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PTTE

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:51

Bring on the petition.

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Trevor Whiting

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:52

@Incompetent regulators via mobile

Forgive me, but there is nothing more spineless than making a comment such as this in sublime anonymity.

Not too impressed

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:02

If the 100,000+ petition route is to be followed (i.e. the one that now guarantees Parliamentary debate of the petitioners' issue once that figure has been reached), I fear that such a tally will not be forthcoming from inside the financial services industry alone; indeed, it would be way beyond such a possibility. It would therefore be necessary for this to be publicised well beyond the world of IFAs, banks and other financial institutions if it is to attract sufficient public interest for it to have so much as the remotest chance of success.

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Chris Challouma

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:02

This is the most embarrassing time for this Government, I have written to number 10 regarding this unbelievable award to some one that has caused havoc to the Economy of this country he has been responsible for huge unemployment in the banking sector, a sector he was most of his life (and is now) all his mates in the sector should be taken to task fro all the false accounting and bringing our country of to its knees.

The FSA all the years I have known focused mainly on the Insurance industry the costs of it products and commissions paid to the IFAs who have I would say a majority did a good job, as we all know you have bad apples in every industry our MPs the police to name few.. but all those involved in the industry me been one over the years have helped people in this country for their pensions, life protection to purchase their home, and get paid for the job done...but no the FSA /PIA where not satisfied they have turned the industry on it head and slowly but surely the industry is bleeding to death...because they think they know better of our needs on investment etc.. this includes this man who was at the helm and has now been Knighted....in fact they have no idea at all about the needs of the average man and woman in our country because he and they live on a different planet with his income and his all his Banker Friends.. that have done so much harm to our country, how could anyone in this government make such a mess on this issue but then its not the first time..I am ashamed to say that I have voted for this lot....but just wonder if the others are any better....or well such as life..I would do anything to get this reversed its just a joke and an insult to the people in the industry and the country as a whole.

With regards to Trevor and his comments its obvious he has no idea about the industry and the damage this man and the FSA have caused.

Sorry about going on this issue, I hope i did not bore you all but I have been in the Financial Services Industry all my life... 40 years, this is the worse I have encountered ...the Banks will take over with him now with Barclays...unfortunately we all need Banks and the Bankers and they all know it..Sad but Fact...

Happy New Year you all

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:05

Trevor Whiting is partner at Core Financial LLP

Trevor you don't "blame a system" that is a way of kicking the issue into the long grass

The leader of an organisation is where the buck stops.

Unfortunately the Tony B liar model is becoming adopted widely It has to end somewhere and the feeling in this thread just might be the tipping point to galvanise some rebalancing of regulation that has lost its way.

Regulation cannot be allowed to be the UKs largest growth industry It is as sensible as eating your own children

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:14

@Alistair Hinton

Lets say that each adviser has 100 clients who could sign this we only need a 1000 adviser to get the required numbers

Put is on facebook and on twitter tell 10 IFA's that you know Maybe if we had 250,000 they might take it seriously

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Mike WOI

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:32

Despite the considerable number of collective years that most have spent on this planet, it would appear that we havn't learned how it all works, have we?

Reward, through whichever means, is not something we do anymore based upon merit. When a football manager (or head, say, of the BBC) is sacked, they leave with clauses in their contract to give them a considerable lump sum, not forgeting that which they were paid (usually, also considerable) in the time they were in that job. Thus, despite losing 10 out of 10 matches (or, say, failing to spot that a well known celebrity and ex emploee was, in fact, an alleged paedophile) may be reasons to be dismissed, but not to stop (in these cases) financial reward.

I am not a religious person (so you won't find me banging on your door to inform you of the benefits of Scientology, Buddhism or Catholicism this week), but I don't think that we offer, on earth at least, any sense of reward based on what we actually achieved or did. Of course, rather sadly, if you don't believe in a life hereafter, then that's it. Which is a bit disappointing.

Fame is like a river, that beareth up things light and swollen, and drowns things weighty and solid.

I would rather be adorned by beauty of character than jewels. Jewels are the gift of fortune, while character comes from within.

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Padraig44

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:39

There is a danger that we are being too introspective.

This is a national issue not a narrow sectarian concern about RDR or even banks.

It speaks to the abuse of voters' rights and intelligence; it creates the impression that there is genuinely two countries:Westminster and the rest of UK.

Sants' preferment is not simply an insult to City practitioners it is an affront to all good citizens and therefore all should be encouraged to have their say.

Look at the very proper and swift reaction to the SF Sergeant's imprisonment and his subsequent release from gaol.

The answer is to widen the scope of the petition; enlist the support of the national press and stop fulminating about "small" concerns that reflect poorly in the national debate.

This is a Goodwin in reverse and should be seen as such.

Are there any readers with access to the national dailies ( Daily Mail etc) who could present this blog trail as prima facie evidence of unrest?

Thoughts?

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Ian Ashleigh

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:46

it was a case of CityWire saying lets put this up there and see what the twats come up with

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Mike Hardy

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:48

I have just posted the petition address on linkedin and signed it myself. I shall be trying to get others to do the same.

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Simon Kershaw

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:50

There is the small matter of a payment made by Mr Sants of £143750 to the Art Room, a pet charity of Kate Middleton, in June this year.

Leaving aside the fact that this was our money, taken as an undeserved bonus for failure, should not such brazen spiviness preclude him from polite company, let alone a Knighthood?

Beyond parody.

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Padraig44

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:51

Wow Mike!

Let's not get too exercised in that direction.

It is not about pay or contractual benefits it is about preferment in the "honours" system.

This knighthood slipped through surely? They idiot bauble for a Wiggo or Hoy is just that - chaff for the masses; Sir Hector is a huge insult not merely to those who have witnessed his evasion and incompetence but to the electorate and that is what makes this remarkable in all senses of that word.

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Forestbhoy

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:12

E-mailed my MP,and look foward to signing anything to stop this.Not everyone on here,like myself, are part of the financial world and this will get bigger and bigger as a story in it's own right.Time for the mouse to start roaring....

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Banged to Rights

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:14

Have I got News for you ?

What you see as "failure" - and I used too view it that way too.

Is in fact not failure but a huge success. A success not for the people of the UK or a wider west but for those in control. Top 1% have hugely benefited from the crisis and there is more to come.

Sants is great mates with T Blair and co. It is nothing to do with Conservative or Nu Labor or Democrats or Republicans that is all a scam the "divisions" and "arguments" are all false between them.

Gets you few guys and a few, very few others going and it is designed to do so.

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alan hughes

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:22

The price of a knighthood!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9341502/FSA-chief-Hector-Sants-donates-bonus-to-Kate-Middletons-charity.html

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:27

@ Arthur Schopenhauer:

You wrote:

Let's say that each adviser has 100 clients who could sign thi;s we only need 1000 advisers to get the required numbers.

Put it on facebook and on twitter tell 10 IFAs that you know. Maybe if we had 250,000 they might take it seriously.

Let me start by stating that I am by no means seeking to pour cold water on this idea; far from it, indeed. Never mind a quarter of a million; 100,000+ is all that would be needed by law, but whilst a substantial number of professionals within the IFA community might well be tempted to sign, getting clients to join them in so doing would surely be a far harder task to achieve, since clients are not exercised about such issues as are the industry practitioners who serve them. The very fact of the existence of Facebook, Twitter and the like might nevertheless prove to be helpful in spreading the word.

I have written to my MP - discreetly and unabrasively - simply drawing his attention to the honour and asking what he thinks about it; as a TSC member, he has had direct dealings with Mr Sants on a number of occasions.

I do think that, as another contributor here has observed earlier, anything that is done about this must be done - and be seen to be done - in the most dignified manner possible, in order to raise credibility as far as it can be raised. I don't like personality bashing but, of course, it's impossible to avoid entirely in a case where the bestowing of an honour on an individual is causing such great chagrin. As long as it is indeed being made as clear as possible that the honour is questionable on the grounds that its recipient is deemed not to have served the nation as it is incumbent upon knights of the realm to have done in order to earn their honours, then any such petition will stand a better chance of being taken seriously by more potential signatories.

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Kate Brookes

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:36

@Mike Hardy

I think I have found you on linkedin, can you tell us where we have to go to sign the petition? i am probably being thick, but this needs to be really clear so that everyone can go and put their name on it.

Cheers

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Mike WOI

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:58

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!

Oliver Cromwell Speech - Dissolution of the Long Parliament

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:14

@Mike WOI

Its the Festive season but you really should take more water with it

Happy New Year

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:16

@Kate Brookes

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

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Ian Lees

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:16

I wrote to our local MP - Ann Main ( who does not live in the area - is content claiming expenses and is buss ed in as required Hertofrshire and does not show integrity or virtue - but has been known to claim expenses ) . All she did was to " forward my letter to the Tresury Select Committee - who wrote back recommending - I write to Hector ( the Hood of Knights ) at the FSA ?? . . . . . "sorded prostitutes " . . . he sayeth . . . . . . I quite agree with Oliver .

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Mike Hardy

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:21

@Kate Brookes

http://petitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

Kate here is the link. I've linked to you on LinkedIn

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Nick

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:31

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:33

This link does not work. The petition link should read

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

which does work!

11 signatories so far; 80 days and 99,989 signatories still to go...

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abtfinman

Dec 31, 2012 at 13:54

Hope there is no confusion here. The petition I have started is not the one on the link above. Mine specifcaly relates to his knighthood and failure.

Problem is it takes 7 days to verify it so it is not yet active.

No harm in signing the earlier one but I believe it willl not apeal to non industry people as much as mine will.

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Ian Ashleigh

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:00

If you IFAs had tried to built sustainable businesses based on fund based income for your clients' best interests, not sequentially churned investment bonds at 7% commission per time and advised on inappropriate pensions transfers taking 8% commission, constantly mortgaging your futures with unsustainable indemnity commission you would have had a profession to be proud of, a regulator that worked with you and you would not be wasting your time and energy protesting against Sir Hector Sants (get used to it). All the best for 2013!

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MattR

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:07

Ian- of course- all IFAs are the same. Get off your PC and get back to your drinks!!!

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:24

@ Ian Ashleigh:

The proportion of IFAs who have consistently done as you appear to accuse them of having done en masse being so small, your comment here is unworthy of serious consideration. Not only that, however, the ways in which IFAs have conducted business have no direct relevance to the matter under discussion here, namely the actions of Mr Sants, particularly those when in office as FSA's CEO and whether, taken as a whole, they amount to worthiness for the honour bestowed upon him; it is thus open to anyone who believes that his conduct and achievements do not warrant such honour to sign a petition against it. If the requisite100,000+ signatures are to be achieved, the majority will not in any case come from any IFAs, let alone the minority type to which you refer here.

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Ian Lees

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:32

Who put the " i " in " arise ? Lets all buy a night hood !

For the benefit of Mr Ashleigh - you will find that most Independent advisers ( financlal planners ) - built and continue to build sustainable businesses, some with the use of commissions ( of up to 8% on single premiums). All the advisers I know are not hell - bent on racking up repetitive commissions - unlike the tardy direct salesforces - who operate a completely different strategy - to suit their employers ie high commissions highly geared , target driven - " hunters " ( if I can borrow the phrase ) not farmers or fishermen. It is deporable that advisers should be persecuted for their tolerance of stupid wildy exagerrated statements of those who really do not have a clue of what a good adviser does. To scrape the surface - I recomend you start by reading Dan Sullivans book " The Good That Advisers Do " The main failure with the regulators - and once knighted hector - is his failure to recognise that IFA's and the majority of Tied Agents / Appointed Representatives and those who claim to be " almost independent ", look after theri clients year after year - decade after decade - in stark contrast to insurance companies swindling their clients by wholesale churning products and services to their own advantage - without any corporate goverance - at company level or at regualtory level - and with regulatory approval, regulatory assistance - and cover up at the FOS and FSA . These fools fail to notice - it is in the best interests of most IFA's to look after their clients, through thick and thin - to assit throughout theri lives. This is a major point which the Fickle Services and their Authorty - refuse to accept. The reason is the political hijacking by insurance companies - and misleading statements ( what I refer to as Lies, Deceit ) made for bullying - for control, by these merchants of deceit - to destroy the IFA - and the great service they are and have been to their clients. For further clarification look at the " fines " lashed out on banks and on insurance companies - who after being negotiated and payment have still made significant profits. I am fed up listening to the wittering s of those slagging of the Great work carried out by IFA's - from frantic fanatics - to journalists whose job it is to examine in detail the work and sell newspapers or articles for theri living . The great unwashed salesforces of TSB - or indeed the salesforces of Scottish Widows - where untrained employees are let loose in gangs at the counters of tsb - or though unregulated chartered accountants ( eg auo enrolment ) to destory customers savings - for theri own benenfit and that of their bosses bonuses - and their employers - the Incompetent run the incontinent ! ? !

An adviser is for life - not just for christmas -

Instead of the corrupt processes of selling new unnecessary products - for high charges high commisions from the restricted range of insurance companies

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:50

@Ian Ashleigh

Ignorant comment Ian what are you after a Knighthood??

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:50

@Ian Ashleigh

Ignorant comment Ian what are you after a Knighthood??

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Cynical Sam

Dec 31, 2012 at 14:55

@ Alistair Hinton

Hear Hear, well said in reply to Ian Ashleigh's misguided comments & accusations.

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Nick

Dec 31, 2012 at 15:16

Ian Ashleigh - what stupid comments!!

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You must be joking

Dec 31, 2012 at 15:27

This message has been posted so I stop getting all the comments on this thread.

Happy New Year all!

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You must be joking

Dec 31, 2012 at 15:27

Damn, didn't untick the box!

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Polfers

Dec 31, 2012 at 15:29

Failed Gamekeeper turns Poacher and gets knighted for it. A typical outcome of the old boys’ network confronts us yet again with the good old Harvey Smiths’; is it any wonder this country is b@##ered?

Whilst @trevor whiting is looking for some balance (which is a fair enough comment to make, Trevor), the Elephant in the room is that there is such universal revulsion at this event from those who have had to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune thrust upon them by this individual, that to deny the tidal wave of protest for its lack of balance is somewhat missing the point. Where, one might ask, has there been balance Mr Sants’ actions?

Such immense opposition by the masses in any other walk of life would have had him out on his ear in a breath. Instead, (and I don’t feel I’m over interpreting the soliloquy here), whilst we want to take action and have an effective voice of representation (i.e. the choice “to be”), we are forced into noisy impotency (i.e. “not to be”). Enforced commercial suicide is a stark reality for many, and will become such for many more within the next 12 months, and you have no rights.

So, Trevor, whilst I understand and respect your call for balance in isolation, one has to wonder in the context of this knighthood, and with wide eyed incredulity, just how infinitesimally small any "good" element there can be in Mr Sants’ legacy or original intent to warrant this honour. So arrogantly confident was he in his great plan that he abandoned ship with treasure in pocket even before the tidal wave of consequences (intended or otherwise), could break its wave upon his Teflon coated head.

Yes, Teflon: we come back repeatedly to the complete and utter lack of accountability Sants’ has enjoyed whilst commanding this regulatory oligarchy and, as we are to continue in this vein, only more so, we are destined to even greater impotency. “to be or not to be” - sadly, that is, and never has been the question, for we have no means of asking it, and that is why all our hot air will sadly remain just that.

As for Mr Ashley - you're too sad to waste time on; if brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Dec 31, 2012 at 15:35

The idea of the on line petition is a good one I suggest that you sue the existing one a it ends in March so we will be seeing many clients in the next 12 weeks

Best wishes all for a terrific 2013 despite the stumbling blocks littering our path

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Julian Stevens

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:16

Re: Trevor Whiting's post yesterday at 20.22 ~ a Freudian slip, perhaps?

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Chris Challouma

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:21

Comments by Ian Ashleigh:

If you IFAs had tried to built sustainable businesses based on fund based income for your clients' best interests, not sequentially churned investment bonds at 7% commission per time and advised on inappropriate pensions transfers taking 8% commission, constantly mortgaging your futures with unsustainable indemnity commission you would have had a profession to be proud of, a regulator that worked with you and you would not be wasting your time and energy protesting against Sir Hector Sants (get used to it). All the best for 2013!

Reply

I know am wasting my time but I had to say something... Who the hell are you to make such comments you are assuming that all IFAs are the same, what are you a failed IFA a failed tied agent or someone that did the job years ago on passing...one that was unable to deal with the compliance issues and unable to deal with paperwork???

For your information if you can understand what you reading, as an IFA you have to look after your clients to keep them for life not "Hit & Run" the majority of IFAs have been in the industry for years and have built up a good business like any other business minded individual, you need to provide good service and satisfy you client needs and goals for the future, if you don't you go out of business, just wondering if you can understand that side whats involved in this business, the chances are you don't. otherwise you wouldn't make silly comments, the chances are you are p*****d out your head... well it is " New years eve"

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Alistair Hinton

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:22

The gong for Hector William Hepburn Sants

Has, as one might expect, incited rants

From many, of whom some bay for its canc-

Ellation as they all do look askance

At his consistent non-deliverance

Of services for which he’s paid a fanc-

Y salary plus bonuses and anc-

Illary benefits, despite his stance

Being bound to wreak great havoc, with no chance

Of public good. The pockets in his pants

Are all that’s swollen while he’s failed to lance

Our fiscal wounds, which do instead enhance

Th’outrageous fortune he’s amassed – it’s hands-

Ome in th’extreme. His gross irrelevance

Has left us all a grave inheritance

And led us all a most un-merry dance.

The honour for Sir Hector surely can’t s-

Urvive in such tenebrous circumstance!

Petition ye, then! – so as to eject a

Non-candidate as meritless as Hector!

...with due apologies to Shakespeare, Stephen Fry and anyone else who might feel maligned by the above doggerel which is the best that its unworthy author can manage on the final day of the year...

One final thought that occurs to me is whether, if the petition is successful and the knighthood accordingly cancelled as a consequence of subsequent Parliamentary debate, will there be a statutory 14-day cooling-off period?...

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David Hatton

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:35

Its certainly got us agitated I've never seen or read so many threads.

So far I haven't seen one in favour for the award so why not turn it about face and ask that he decline it due to the damage he's done to the country. It may stand a chance if he's got any morals!!!

But then again?

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Marty Bar

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:43

Yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full SIR. This country is an absolute joke!

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Trevor Whiting

Dec 31, 2012 at 16:59

Well spotted Julian !

HNY

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Simon Mansell

Dec 31, 2012 at 17:06

Sants wanted out two years ago, he was persuaded by the chancellor to stay on to oversee the transfer a newly created Financial Conduct Authority. One wonders if the knighthood was part of the deal - as the FSA at the time was so devoid of talent that Sants was hobson's choice even at the cost of a knighhood.

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philip spierling

Dec 31, 2012 at 17:15

I just want to say the following,,

To the IFAs who have worked hard in the last few years to look after their clients,,keep their business afloat in the economic tsunami that has engulfed the world,, did the exams ,, struggled with ever increasing regulation and u-turns on policy and FSA consultation papers and all the while keeping a roof over our families head and food on our tables,, I say this,,,

Good Luck going forward, best wishes, happy new year,, and lets keep doing the job we are good at because our clients need us.

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Kate Brookes

Dec 31, 2012 at 18:29

@ Alistair Hinton

Bravo! I remembered that Alfred Lord Tennyson also had a comment on the situation too;

"Who is this? And what is here?"

And in the lighted palace near

Died the sound of royal cheer;

And they crossed themselves for fear,

All the Knights at Camelot;

Took a look at what they’d got

Hector Sants the odious toad

Had bought an honour, once bestowed

Upon the great and good that give their days

To something better than Barclays

Out flew the web and floated wide-

The mirror crack'd from side to side;

"The curse is come upon me," cried

All IFA’s from far and wide

Silently and all in shock

They all remembered Northern Rock

@ Phillip Spierling

We will keep on, despite the myth of the 8% bond (which is starting to bore me now - Radio 4 and that Ian bloke take note)

Happy New Year Chaps.....off to drink the remainder of the Christmas Dissarano now, am sure Hector will be a distant memory by 9.30 pm ! Tomorrow I will wake up hungover, but RDR compliant. I will think how grateful I am for the FSA sorting out my wicked ways whilst I drink my Alka Saltza.

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Ian Lees

Dec 31, 2012 at 18:34

If you ( Ian ) are intent on insulting your colleagues then you have suceeded. I am aware of the many people who have made excellent businesses, employed many people, and helped millions of people through their hard work and their due diligence - in spite of direct sales people - and their drastic commission targetted sales strategies. Many of these product floggers have already become outcast to the Independent Finamcial Advisers - who are dutiful and diligent - in theri work, their knowledge and their successful businesses. To have their businesses ravaged by the incompetence of hector sants and his FSA - with his nighthood over his head blinded to the great work IFA carry out - is malicious, sinister . . . and the most grave injustice to every consumer. Given the range of unemployed from banks and insurance companies - the reduction of competition - and European legislation affecting every individual in the UK - the last thing IFA need to hear is some idiot banging on about their failed busienss models - since many / most of them are successful - designed for theri clients by the IFA's - who have been successful for decades. If you are invited to Million Dollar Round Table - you can see that for your self. If not invited I urge you to go along and find out what IFA do for their clients - but for goodness sake do not chastise us through a lack of knowledge,.

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alan hughes

Jan 01, 2013 at 12:38

What kind of idiot buys a knighthood for £143K when you can buy a lordship online for £18.95?

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 01, 2013 at 14:16

@Alan

Someone with a £3M pa package from Barclays?

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John Phillips

Jan 01, 2013 at 17:01

All you need to succeed in life is the right connections. Old Hector is a well connected man. You don't stick your fingers up to the TSC unless you have the backing of the right people. The job at Barclays is his payoff from the banking community. Forget the petition there aren't enough IFA's left to get it raised in parliament.

I'm really impressed by the amount of coverage the RDR is getting in the press / media (not). I'm glad our clients will be fully aware of what it means to them.

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Padraig44

Jan 01, 2013 at 17:15

John

I really did not believe that the petition should restrict itself to IFA's and focus on the rights and wrongs of RDR. This should be a response of outraged citizens in the UK and those amongst us who have access to media help should get busy alerting these people to woeful wrongdoing that has occurred.

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Julian Stevens

Jan 01, 2013 at 17:20

Re: Simon Mansell's post yesterday at 16:06 ~ a very plausible theory. I can't imagine he agreed to stay on just because they appealed to his Christian sense of duty to do the right thing.

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John Phillips

Jan 01, 2013 at 17:35

@Padraig44

Unfortunately it is only thr IFA community that understands this injustice and more importantly gives a dam. Our whole industry is built on the apathy of the general population and therefore getting any additional support is highly unlikely.

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Padraig44

Jan 01, 2013 at 17:49

@john

That is just plain wrong John

IFA's are far from the only interest groups regulated by the FSA and certainly not the only people who understand injustice. This does certainly require that interested parties lobby MP's and the media to get the oxygen of publicity to fan the flame.

Negativity and passivity never wins the day.

Who does not understand the diverting of an ill-gotten bonus to a Charity and its naked self -interest?

Read the latest Private Eye.

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Ian Lees

Jan 01, 2013 at 19:15

Remember ! Remember ! the RBS , affectionately known as the Robbign NBankl of Scotland ? - when the knight of hoods of Sir Fred theShred - beguiled Margaret Thatcher into thinking he was competent - whilst assisting her to find out what the inherent problems were with BCCI - and who the errant directors were ?? before being " offerred " a move to RBS - and the onslaught he casued through devastaion and destruction - and the remnantsof baniking he caused . . . . prior to being reduced to "ordinary fred ", and now . . . . an architect . Perhaps Hector is being placed by government officials into Barclays - as a spy ? to find out how Barclays is controlled form the middle east . . . . where once there came a star ( but this star is not hector ) . Perhaps Barclays refuse to disclose their information to FSA or FCA - or provide details of their misdemeanours - or provide details of their deceity in full. Barclys lubricationg Libor ! ? ! Perhaps hector is being controlled by his employers, having failed at the FSA a chance to redeem himself or just get a substantial wage rise, bonuses pensions etc., - on top of bonuses he received at the FSA - as a part time regulator ? This would be a positive move by a regulator - into making hector the informant ! and assist shareholders . . . . . But what if he turns . . . . . . . . like ordinary fred ?

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Ian Ashleigh

Jan 01, 2013 at 19:37

I see Mr Lees that 2013 will continue the theme of personal vindictive attacks on individuals in regulation and government. And you has the audacity to say that I had insulted you .. pots and kettles methinks. YAWN!!!

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 01, 2013 at 19:51

Isn't it time that IFAs started growing up and acted like proper business people, this whole thing seems incredibly self indulgent. Perhaps we should just get on with doing good things for our Clients. As with many things some things you have control over and some you don't

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Ian Ashleigh

Jan 01, 2013 at 20:07

Trevor, finally a voice of reason

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Mike Hardy

Jan 01, 2013 at 22:00

We are up to 42 signatures. Keep up the good work. Two days ago we had just 4. I have been tweeting and posting http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608 plus tweeting those I know are behind the principle @piersmorgan for example. If we can get high profile individuals to retweet it may help raise awareness. Tomorrow I will start lobbying my clients.

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Chris Challouma

Jan 02, 2013 at 08:57

Mike well done !!!!

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 09:27

Thanks Chris.

51 Signatures so far. Keep it going!

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 09:39

Trevor and Ian

Most IFAs are proper business people otherwise they would not be in business.One carachteristic of a proper business person is having a bit of backbone and reacting against injustice in my humble opinion.

In fact I am delighted that there are so many IFAs that have the mental energy and enthusiasm to rally against the likes of Sants and the establishment. Even if we are not spring chickens we can still kick up a fuss if required.

The day I become as jaded and fatalistic as you sound I will pack it all in and retire.

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 02, 2013 at 09:53

You miss the point entirely Mike. I am an IFA and act as one in the purest sense of the word. BUT the acronym is well over used, your Passport says probably Financial Adviser, not IFA, if the latter it is not universally recognised. WE are all Financial Advisers, IFAs are not superior beings, but on the whole are not great business people, because they are torn between doing the right things for the Clients (correct) and being Commercial. This is fundamentally the largest factor holding back many IFA businesses in the UK.

With regard to backbone, yes IFAs have a lot of that, BUT they are not special, including me !

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Bob Donaldson

Jan 02, 2013 at 09:57

You get so far up the greasy pole and then you are rewarded for failure. The honours system is broken time for RDR. Real deserving rewards for real people!

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Ian Lees

Jan 02, 2013 at 09:59

When those in power have avoided their duties, this is a derelictionof duty e.g UBS and one of their " rogue traders ", working under the FSA and UBS compliance called - company governance - under fsa approval. Look at Scottish Widows now de authorised - yet still promoting " auto enrolment " through the ICAEW etc., owned by LloydsTSB who also own Clerical Medical - and Scottish Widows are " Introducers " to clerical Medical - yet still sponsoring Roger Black and his olympic athelites - for the purposes of further advertising for LloydsTSB - often referred to " as the journey" - for the piggy back advertising of good business people i.e athelites - who have commitment in obtianing sponsorship to continue theri own great successes. This is the reality of LloydsTSB sponsorship of Olympians - for their own tardy purposes rather than promote the great qualities of our great athletes, their commitment, ther training etc., - It is the PIA and FSA who have created the cumbersome and costly regulation - which has not worked. Those sordid MP's in Governemment are unaware of the issues - as they are patsy's to their bosses - brought out to back up the incredible incomeptance of those in power. I call this like Scottish Widows where the Incompetent lead the Incontinent ! Look at all the American companies now operating in the UK, ( e.g Chelmsford BNY Mellon ) European companies who are now taken over British companies e.g Aegon - and watch this country UL Plc - losing business as a result of recently published photos of " Wet Dave's" ( Cameron ) evading his duties - acorporate corrupt dereliction of duty . For further example have a look at " Mary's Bottom Line " who created an industry left destitute by previous and current governments - all chasing publicity - rather than becoming " statesmen and women " - running the country - rather than selling it off. Look to insurance companies whose directors are guilty of a dereliction of duty toward their clients, their agents - their providers IFA's - whose businesses are great , are profitable and now taxed to the hilt with obscene chargesby the regulator - to pay for the derelictions of duty of large companies such as banks insurance companies pension Trustees.. Banks have no commitment to their customers - if they had Barclays would not have been caugh t" fiddling Libor " - and whose bosses have gone unchallenged and no one has been jailed for their dereliction of duties. Turning the other way is not an ooption. LloydsTSB would not be selling off clients to the Co op ( who claim they are good with food ) - after miselling of PPI endowments and pensions - for their own bankers bonuses - leaving client financially disadvantaged. It is interesting that with all the IFA's I meet - they run good businesses, they operate profitably, they are committed to their customers - and they do not need sub standard comments from those who are ill informed badly advised . Perhaps you are moving in the wrong circles - with the wrong types - or with the wrong clients. This may be one reason why you seem - so obviously tired, and your need to yawn . If you do not like peopel like me standing up to your critisisms or my reply or my retort - then do not make unnecessary unwelcome crass comments. Insulting my fellow colleagues is not the way forward - get rid of your negative thoughts - and find away to assist my colleagues and their customers ( whether as clients or as IFA ' who need all the help they can get to help them to provide even greter benefits - greater services - for their customers - for that is where their businesses and their future lies .

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Jonathan Kirby

Jan 02, 2013 at 10:08

I think this article has attracted more comments than any other. Haven't had a chance to read the all but haven't found one that supports this travesty.

Maybe there is more than meets the eye though?

Perhaps as everyone knows that all Hector ever wanted was a knighthood, someone said 'look if we give you one will you go away and leave us alone'?

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Chris Challouma

Jan 02, 2013 at 11:04

The fact of the matter is that their is one rule for THEM and one rule for US and if we dont make a point they will think that they are always right which clearly they are not hence the financial mess we are in at the moment. which our children and grandchildren will be paying in years to come because of our incompetent Regulators and our Government, just wonder what will happen if an IFA cocks up the same way??? will he/she be able to work again??? could he/she end up in jail??? and fined??? I rest my case...

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Steven Farrall

Jan 02, 2013 at 11:17

He was bought off. It's been common knowledge for years that Sants was promised a K by the Tories in order to get him off manoeuvres pre 2010 election and to compensate him for not being made a, or the, Govenor of the Bank of England.

But it is still cronyism.

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abtfinman

Jan 02, 2013 at 11:35

My petition has been rejected. Copy of email below.

Dear Alyn Beattie,

Your e-petition "hector sants" hasn't been accepted.

E-petitions cannot include information about honours or appointments.

Find information about nominations for honours at: http://www.direct.gov.uk/honours

View your rejected e-petition

If you'd like to submit a new e-petition, please read the site's terms and conditions which explain the rules in detail.

Thanks,

HM Government e-petitions http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

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Ian Lees

Jan 02, 2013 at 11:58

The Governement is NOT LISTENING ! No change there ! The sell off of UK plc ( Pretty Lousy Country ) - with sensible experienced people with education removing themselves from these shores - to be replaced by . . . . . unskilled immigrants . . . who will always be able to get a job in a bank . . .or an insurance compnay . . . or even a knighthood for services rendered ( as in plaster - rather than the failure of regulation ).

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Ian Lees

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:04

Little old hector will be able to assist Boris with his" Barclays Bike Tax " - and the significant increases in their charges - over and above excessive rail travel increases in the capital - London . Only in Edinburgh where they failed to install an undergorund . . . and failed further when they introduced a tram line - on top of land . . . . . and which extends some 200 or 300 yards ( for they are parochial in Edinburgh and not yet used to cms and metres ) along princess street ( as named . . . . . after a car ) .

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:12

@abtfinman

Suggest that we all use the existing petition Has the same effect

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Steven Farrall

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:15

We all keep banging on about how this is beyond belief, but it's all our own fault. If we, as citizens, stopped encouraging a sort of participatory fascism where we each seek control over someone else then opportunities for the likes of Sants would not arise. He, Sants, is a sympton of a wider malaise in society. This is just our corner of that. As you all will know there is universal contempt for Parliament and the Governments and its bureaucratic Satraps, but these people can only get where they are if we let them. In the case of the RDR it is a simple assualt on liberty and private property, but it has been welcomed by many of our peer group - usually for nakedly self interested reasons dressed up in the tawdry lexicon of 'consumer protection', or 'professionalism' (the latter being a simple attempt to create a cartel). Unless we all stand up for Liberty - the fundamental and indivisible value that underpins all other values, it is not just our area of the real economy hat will be destroyed it is our society itself.

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Jonathan Kirby

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:28

The following is a genuine email received from a client on Monday.

I think it says it all

Hi Joe,

I picked up what appears to be some alarming news on the national news headlines this morning. I understand that the government through the FSA has suddenly decided that as of today all financial advisers will no longer be able to be paid through commission from products taken up by their clients, but will have to charge an up front fee to clients for all advice work. Is this true? It was a total surprise to me as there doesn't seem to have been any discussion in the media or from government, neither has any information been forthcoming. It appears from the news report that the government has just decided that this is in the best interests of customers. I can understand that the FSA wants to cut out any fraudulent selling to vulnerable people, but It seems to me that not only are they interfering with the millions of people like us who have a good and trusting relationship with our independent financial adviser, but they are also taking all choice away from customers who are perfectly happy with the status quo! In many cases this may well mean that only the rich will have access to good quality independent financial advice in the future.

Where does this leave us? I know that you receive annual commission on some of the products you have sold us. For example my draw down pension investments, which we are due to review in February for the first time I believe. Does this mean we will need to pay you an annual fee for these? if so how much is it likely to cost? Presumably this also means that any further investment advice we need from you, will have to be financed by us paying an up front fee, instead of through commissions on the products we select?

It seems to me that this is yet another case of a government and the FSA being completely out of touch with the impact of their actions upon ordinary people and families. I have no doubt that you may be getting lots of emails about this from your other clients. If you could let me know if I have understood the situation correctly and what our own situation will be as soon as you can, I would be grateful.

Happy new year by the way!!

Best wishes

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John Smyth 3

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:31

@ Trevor Whiting

Your acceptance of this title given to Sants is astonishing.

He has never been anything other than a banking industry placeman just like Callum McCarthy before him. Only a few weeks ago "Which" did anothe survey of the sales practices of the retail banks pressurised sales forces. Hector never even attempted to tackle that. We wonder why?

The establishment in this country is every bit as corrupt as that of many 3rd world countries.

I suspect you of being a fully paid up member of the Conservative party hoping to get some political appointment yourself in either local or national government.

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paul hart

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:37

What a fabulous email! You couldn't have made that up. This needs to be put in front of Hector and his chums. It's only what most of us have been saying for years.

Despite what has been said on here in the last few days, both pro and anti RDR the fact remains that many good people in our industry have been forced out by the meddling FSA and PIA before them in the so called interests of the consumer. Sadly as an industry we are too small to matter anymore but just imagine the uproar if this had been happening in the energy or telecoms sectors?

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eric the kleric

Jan 02, 2013 at 14:34

Noooooo ooooooooo!

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Mark Ferris

Jan 02, 2013 at 14:51

Alternative petition available at

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Withdraw_Hector_Sants_Nomination_for_Knighthood_Reform_The_System/?tpulPdb

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 14:59

@Mark

Did you not see the earlier posting??

petition has been rejected. Copy of email below.

Dear Alyn Beattie,

Your e-petition "hector sants" hasn't been accepted.

E-petitions cannot include information about honours or appointments.

Find information about nominations for honours at: http://www.direct.gov.uk/honours

View your rejected e-petition

If you'd like to submit a new e-petition, please read the site's terms and conditions which explain the rules in detail.

Thanks,

HM Government e-petitions http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

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Phil Bill

Jan 02, 2013 at 15:15

Just unticking the box!

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 15:15

Methinks that there may be some confusion here.

The petition at http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608 is still live and has not been rejected; its title, however, is

"Public enquiry and resulting prosecution regarding the gross dereliction of duties by Hector Sants and Senior Management at the FSA since 2005.

Responsible department: Her Majesty's Treasury."

and its terms of reference are

"Mismanagement and dereliction of duties while CEO of FSA. Sants being from Banking Stock was too close to the banking industry and played a substantial part in the financial disaster that followed; affecting all aspects of the British economy.

The enquiry needs to be public with the final outcome being proportionate to the crime, including, but limited to a lifetime ban in working in Financial Services or Banking in the UK".

It is clear that, whatever the restrictions may be to e-petitions about honours and appointments, the above petition has not been rejected and, accordingly, is currently running with a tally of 72 signatories at last glance. If it is successful and the subsequent Parliamentary debate appropriately constructive, on of its outcomes might well be the rescinding of Mr Sants' knighthood rather as that of Fred Goodwin was withdrawn (albeit not as a consequence of Parliamentary petition).

It seems to me to be a pity that appointments and honours are excluded as subjects for e-petitions to Parliament but it seems to me that, as this is the case for the time being, the above petition might well have the same outcome if it is successful.

Perhaps someone should start a separate petition against the exclusion of appointments and honours from the Parliamentary e-petition system...

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 15:30

@ Mark Ferris:

In the text of the petition to which you refer above, "Hector Sands" needs to be amended to read "Hector Sants"!

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Mark Ferris

Jan 02, 2013 at 15:40

Well spotted Alistair. It isn't my petition, I was merely highlighting it's existence.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 15:51

@ Mark Ferris:

I realise that you are not the instigator of the petition but do now know how to contact that person so, if he's signed up here, he might notice this!

That said, one might argue that "shifting Sands" is not necessarily inappropriate in the context concerned...

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One is afraid

Jan 02, 2013 at 16:10

@Ian Lees

It seems that whatever the subject matter, you have to raise another rant about the Lloyds TSB group. You obviously have a beef - write to them and tell them, if you don't like their response, try the FOS. If they tell you to bog off, then please do us all a favour and oblige them.

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Julian Stevens

Jan 02, 2013 at 16:27

Gentlemen ~ Are we not supposed to be above this type of playground mud-slinging, particularly anonymously?

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 16:38

@ Julian Stevens:

One would certainly hope so, especially when the actual subject matter is as pertinent and grave as in the present context; it would be good to see comments restricted to discussion of the specific subject and without any undignified mud-slinging at anyone, including Mr Sants himself, for mere sniping and backbiting does not make out a case or support a cause - indeed, it can sometimes have the effect of doing just the opposite!

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 16:41

Could we concentrate on the one practical suggestion of completing the petition at

The petition at http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

There are now 81 which is a great start from the 4 when this was suggested at

Mark Ferris Dec 31, 2012 at 10:33

Do it now!!

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Ian Lees

Jan 02, 2013 at 16:49

Has anyone else read the article in The Times today - where they claim that pharmaceutrical companies, aerospace defence compnaies have been paying 100's of thousands of pounds to officals for payments for lobbying ? Hector will be well aware of this I assume, and his transfer fee to Barclays . . his " hood of knights", and speaking of Knights - there is Angela Knight ex conservative MP before being ousted by Margaret Thatcher - to join the Board of Scottish Widows , then the Head of the ABI - before becoming head of the British Banking Association . . . and now ? How did the FSA fail to alert the public - when they claim to be treating customers fairly ? Not only is there Joe . . . ther is Sid ? and millions of consumers duped by the FSA as a regulator - sponsored by unsatisfactory MP's - led by the nose by wet Dave.

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paul hart

Jan 02, 2013 at 17:16

Done. Signed it!

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 17:44

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/regulation/does-hector-sants-deserve-to-be-knighted/1063722.article.

It's interesting that the PM is put forward (without any proof, of course) as a likely candidate to have recommended the grating of this honour; whilst I'd like to think that he might actually go public and either admit to or deny having done so, but I fear that this will be about as unlikely as Arthur Scargill becoming PM.

I am reminded of the composer Igor Stravinsky who expressed his contempt for the music of the German composer Richard Strauss with the words "if Richard, then Wagner - if Strauss, then Johann"; perhaps if Hector, then Berlioz, if William, then Shakespeare, if Hepburn, then Audrey and if Sants, then Barcelona's principal train station.

I also note that Hector is commemorated as the face of the Jack of diamonds in French playing cards; I suppose that this is because there's no such card as the Bob of diamonds.

Remembering the Iliad, Diomedes and Odysseus, when faced with Hector's attack, described him as what one classical scholar has translated as an 'invincible headlong terror', and a 'maniac'; it would presumably take quite a leap of faith to reinterpret such as description as appropriate for a knight in shining armour whose honourability is such as to make his treating people fairly as par for the course.

If this is to be debated in Parliament, however, there are just 78 days to go to attain the 100,000 finishing post and, so far, the petitioner tally is still languishing at less than 100; as I've mentioned previously, this will have to be carefully and effectively marketed to the general public and the public interest in the issue well focused if it's to have the remotest chance of airing in HoC.

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DWH

Jan 02, 2013 at 18:38

I will work every day to add a couple of more signatures. Between now and then I should be able to get a couple of hundred

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Barney Stackhouse

Jan 02, 2013 at 18:39

Absolute joke - if they can reach a decision like that then they better give Fred The Shred his gong back!

And politicians wonder why the public at large are disengaged and alienated, not voting or even bothered about what is going on in the highest ranks of public/private office. This a great example of how disconnected the people making the decisions are from the small people who make up the ever suffering population.

WHAT A JOKE!!!

He should be known as 'Hector's Pants' lol

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richard john brydon

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:00

Signed. I've just written to my MP, again! I've also included local councillors in my missive and made the point of just why the nation no longer bothers to vote. I mean, what's the point?

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:12

@ DWH:

The success of the petition would therefore appear to depend upon some 5,000 more people doing what you propose to do...

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:12

I mean 500, not 5,000, of course! (though 5,000 might perhaps not be unwelcome to some)...

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Julian Stevens

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:22

What are the national newspapers saying about this? Have any parallels been drawn with Fred The Shred? Had I thought to watch Newsnight, I imagine the ever-acerbic Jeremy Paxman may well have had a few choice words to say.

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Padraig44

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:35

Julian

Not a great deal simply because it has been effectively buried and few are aware of the level of anger that exists.

I do not have the technical skills to upload this giant trail of comments but it would surely be hugely interesting to the Dailies ( not least the Daily Mail!)

It needs to aired beyond these narrow confines...

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Padraig44

Jan 02, 2013 at 19:35

Julian

Not a great deal simply because it has been effectively buried and few are aware of the level of anger that exists.

I do not have the technical skills to upload this giant trail of comments but it would surely be hugely interesting to the Dailies ( not least the Daily Mail!)

It needs to aired beyond these narrow confines...

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Ian Ashleigh

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:14

I don't belive that you petty minded individuals are still banging on about this after 3 days. Do you not have any clients to see or have you all fallen off the RDR cliff. Think how much you would have earned in fees (sorry you must be still on commission) if you had put this much energy into giving advice.

You seem to think these Boards are your domain for personal attacks on whichever individual in regulation or government you feel like. You are like 4th formers plotting to put sugar in the headmaster's car because he gave you detention.

We get the regulation we deserve - think about it ALL of you!

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:15

Hi Everybody

I have been busy lobbying clients and anybody else who will listen. The number is up to 91 which is great but as many have already said we need to do more. I have started to email the petition link to clients and other suggesting they email it to at least two others. I will phone a few journalist tomorrow and invite them to look at the activity going here. They might be interested.

Well done everybody lets keep plugging away.

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:31

Are you the Ian Asleigh of Compliance Matters UK Limited?

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DWH

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:37

@ Ian Ashleigh

In the context of the unaminous feeling on this subject your observations about being 4th formers are confrontational. It'simportant to put this forward otherwise nothing will change. It is unhelpful to call names. I believe that decisions like this are damaging to the fabric of our state and democracy.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:40

@ Ian Ashleigh:

I don't know why I should bother to take apart your latest expression, but I will at least try.

You wrote

"I don't belive"

by which one assumes you to mean "believe", although your belief is not the issue here, if (or rather whether or not) you'll pardon my so saying.

"that you petty minded individuals are still banging on about this after 3 days"

Clearly, this issue means little or nothing to you whereas it does to others here and elsewhere; what right does that give you to describe anyone concerned about it as "petty minded" and on what precise grounds?

You next entreat us all with

"Do you not have any clients to see or have you all fallen off the RDR cliff. Think how much you would have earned in fees (sorry you must be still on commission) if you had put this much energy into giving advice."

What makes you assume that writing about this issue has to be a substitute for serving clients? Where is the possible logic in that? HJOw much time do you suppose each individual response here has taken each individual respondent, compared to the amount of time required t provide service to a client?

"sorry you must be still on commission"

I won't even think of bothering to ask what you're on...

You then write

"You seem to think these Boards are your domain for personal attacks on whichever individual in regulation or government you feel like. You are like 4th formers plotting to put sugar in the headmaster's car because he gave you detention"

I have already pointed out that barbed personal attacks will get none of us anywhere but that this fact in no wise undermines the gravity of the case that is the subject under discussion here.

Lastly, you observe that

"We get the regulation we deserve - think about it ALL of you!"

Again, on what grounds do you deduce that? The very fact that we get the regulation that we pay for cannot be denied, but this creates no conceivable synonymity with the notion of getting what is deserved by those who do the paying.

In so writing, I have sought to take you seriously, come what may; the content of what you write does not, however, encourage me to make a habit of so doing...

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:48

Well Ian, you've certainly raised the troponin levels in the IFA community now; do like a frank exchange of views, next?

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 20:54

There is an Ian Ashleigh that owns/works for Compliance Matters UK Limited. That Ian used to work for the FSA and now it would appear earns a living from IFAs but surely the Ian Ashleigh who just referred to us as petty minded cant be he same person because nobody would be that stupid. Surely!

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:00

I am not aware that anyone has actually raised anyone's troponin levels here and would not care about it if anyone did think so (rightly or wrongly); this is not, in any case, all about "the IFA community" and any suggestion that doubts about the bestowal of the honour concerned are of relevance and concern only to that community undermines its greater gravity.

Let's get back to the subject and treat it with the gravity that it deserves.

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:08

Ian

You have gone quite?

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Kate Brookes

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:10

@Ian Ashley

I have been to work today, and dealt with my clients. It takes me a few minutes of every day to contribute to the debate of my industry as a whole, and read the associated press surrounding it, I consider it to be an important part of my job, in order to stay relevant in my practice and with my clients.

I never sold an 8% bond, I've never sold UCIS, I am honest, not target led, and care about the people I work with, I run a compliant business and passed all my exams......what I deserve is a flourishing and successful business,

So, @ Trevor Whiting, excuse me if my 'troponin' levels rise at the utter unmitigated nonsense some people spout about IFA's, it may be a pathetic jokey windup to some of you, but this is my livelihood and I have worked hard to get here to help support my family so show some bloody respect.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:11

@Mike Hardy

Don't think it can be that company it has £1 share capital and a negative balance sheet of (£8,658) in the accounts for January 2012

If it is ...... then I hope you have better year in 2013 Ian

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:13

People who are able to do something well can do that thing for a living, while people who are not able to do anything that well make a living by teaching.

George Bernard Shaw'

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Mike Hardy

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:16

Like your style Arthur!

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:22

@ Kate Brookes:

All points well taken and all due empathies offered from here but please - please - can we just ignore those who get off the subject by getting off on something else in the way that the Ian Ashleys, Trevor Whitings et al of this world appear to wish to do and simply concentrate on the matter at hand which has far more wide-reaching consequences than can be contained within the IFA community, as I have already begun to get rather tired of trying to point out?...

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Kate Brookes

Jan 02, 2013 at 21:31

@Alistair Hinton

Good Point, well made.

It's just like having an annoying mosquito buzzing around your head that needs a damn good swatting so you can get on with the job at hand!

Signed both petitions today, and tweeted them too.

......breath....

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 02, 2013 at 22:07

Petition up to 92

I see it has been put on IFA talk

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David Hatton

Jan 03, 2013 at 00:46

@Ian Ashleigh

The anger is that because there's right and there's wrong and this is grossly wrong on all levels.

Forget about industry issues and axes to grind just go to a bank for borrowing, or look at you bank statement for the fees levied on accounts conducted in the black. You may even try calling into the branches of northern rock, BBB, Rbs, HBOS, Alliance & Leicester ( tell me when to stop) Mr Sants has supervised/ contributed to their demise.

Going forward lets try investment advice from the banks this year, oops sorry they they have given a big thumbs up to RDR by culling their advisers and stopping providing investment advice, and you classify this as a success?

Personally, I feel the banks demise is a shot in the arm for the industry however at least they offered a large section of society access to investment products.

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Ian Lees

Jan 03, 2013 at 06:37

I am pleased to see the petition rise to 92 at the last count. With LloydsTSB - the trading name for Edinburgh based bank TSB ( the coming together of all the scottish Trustee savings banks from Carlisle to Inverneeess) - after their purchase of Lloyds Bank - and now offloading many elements of the LloydsTSB Group - down to Birmingham - we can only deduce this is in preparation for Scotland's separation - ( i.e Independence for Alex Salmon and Ms Sturgeon ) .- and their protection issues after borrowing 42% of taxpayers money - and their payment of fines. I have neverworked out how this works - but reckless Directors of LloydsTSB Group - are alledegdly involved in money laundering drugs money in New York - and under investigation - yet employ BNY ( Bank of New York ) Mellon in Chelmsford to conduct their " administration ", - all under the watch fool eye of Hector Sants - who goes on to receive a job at Barclys - the Libor fiddling bank - with an extravagent salary, significant pension - and a Knight hood from Her Majesty ? It is not even Her Majesty's Bank Cooots - owned by RBS - apparently known as " the Robbing Bank of Scotland " . This is the reality of the destruction of advice - the expensive and costly - the farce of "regulation". Banks and their directors are above the Law - they are protected by the MP's in Government - a result of the Banks lobbying - to destroy small businesses - and IFA's and advisers who care for their customers - in comparison the the new Barclys Bile Tax in London - where the charges for Barclays Bikes is increased under Boris the jester ! and London Mayor. How is it that Scottish Widows - now unauthorised under the FSA - yet continue to trade - and claim to be introducers to . .. . . clerical Medical ( all part of the LloydsTSB Group ) - continue to advise and can provide advice on auto enrolment ? Any adviser attempting this would be brought to book. This is the structure which Hector Sants agreed for some e.g. bankers whilst for real advisers the result could be . . . . . . Imprisonment . . . is it not ?

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Ian Lees

Jan 03, 2013 at 06:41

Hector Sants - boss of bar clays - a night by day - a hood by night ?

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 03, 2013 at 08:07

97

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

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John Phillips

Jan 03, 2013 at 08:16

Awards Intelligence suggests considering a checklist before a nomination for an honour from the Queen is made and I am sure that if those organisations who come under the control of the FSA were asked, the answer: "Sants deserves a knighthood" is an unlikely outcome.

The checklist asks if the nominee has:

made a difference to their community or field of work?

brought distinction to British life and enhanced its reputation?

exemplified the best sustained and selfless voluntary service?

demonstrated innovation and entrepreneurship?

carried the respect of their peers?

changed things, with an emphasis on achievement?

improved the lot of those less able to help themselves?

displayed moral courage and vision in making and delivering tough choices?

Copied from http://www.portfolio-adviser.com/news/pa-analysis/pa-analysis-sir-hector-sants

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 08:21

While we wait for the 100 mark, here's http://www.citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/mps-argue-sants-knighthood-discredits-honours-system/a648129?re=21960&ea=317026&utm_source=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_EAM&utm_medium=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_EAM&utm_campaign=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_EAM

just published in this very paper. At least some MPs appear not even to need advance prompting by their constituents before voicing dissent on this one.

@ John Phillips:

Your checklist (or rather that which you have copied and reproduced here) is a good one; I fear that it might reasonably be argued that Mr Sants has complied with the first item thereon, though clearly not in the spirit in which it is presumably intended!...

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Steven Farrall

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:08

I have been follwing this thread, and you are all missing the point.

Sants is fireproof, short of a revolution or if someone within the establishment decides he really is beyond the Pale.

The problem is not his K it's the system that saw it as reasonable to give him one and why.

He was bought off. It has been common knowledge for years that this was coming. Pre 2010 election he was politicking against the Tories and to shut him up they offered him a K.

No, the real problem is Liberty itself. Sants K is a sympton a deeper corruption within the whole rotten system of government and regulationism. It is deeply cronyistic and self serving. The bureaucratic Satraps are simply interested in securing their own power and entitlements. To do this they distribute the costs (i.e. 'fines' as stealth taxes) and concentrate the benefits (e.g. various mis-selling redress schemes which have no legal merit at all, but which make substantial transfer payemnts to individuals to secure a constituency for the bureaucrats).

Hence rather than waste your ire on that creep Sants better to put effort into working for Liberty and deciding who to vote for next time. Or even better yet get involved and realy start lobbying for Liberty and the defence of private property. The latter being the target of the assault of the RDR.

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Mark Ferris

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:20

Now 354 signatures on the alternative petition at

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Withdraw_Hector_Sants_Nomination_for_Knighthood_Reform_The_System/?tpulPdb

Why don't we put our collective efforts into one petition?

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:37

@ Mark Ferris:

Why not indeed? - except, perhaps, that if the object of the exercise is to secure Parliamentary debate and the alternative petition concentrates on a subject that is evidently excluded from the Parliamentary e-petition scheme (i.e. appointments and honours) then its eventual submission to Parliament will presumably be rejected.

@ Steven Farrall:

Points taken, but as long as this doesn't turn into personal victimisation or witch-hunting, I see no good reason why drawing attention to a particular example of what is deemed (not least by the two MPs who've spoken out against the granting of this honour) to risk bringing the honours system as a whole into disrepute is a bad thing and it strikes me in any case not to be so very far from your "point" which you seem to believe most people here are "missing".

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:38

@Mark Ferris

Steven Farrall is spot on; it's the system.

On another note, 'why don't you lay off the poor Bloke' all you're doing is making the IFA community look vindictive, not a good example to set I think

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Marty Bar

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:47

"Sant's" realised that the game was up and resigns when this coalition government scraped in from the last corrupt lot. A meeting with "Osbourne" soon shows that overseeing a shambolic corrupt banking system is not seen as failure but a reason to be persuaded to stay on with the same guarantees that the FSA are beyond the law of the land and reproach from another inept government. "Sant's" realising he's dealing with more Boys from the same Corrrupt Club seizes the chance to a guaranteed SIRHOOD and a position back in the comfort of, oh yes the BANK.....? This could be a fictitious political novel but knowbody would believe it! This so called democratic country is doomed based on one currupt/incompetent government following another.

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David Hatton

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:50

Its still an insult to have this been considered yet alone awarded, I didn't see poor old Hector "laying off" at any time over the last 5/6 years .

You reap what you sow!

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 10:56

@ Trevor Whiting:

The avaaz petition text includes the following:

"We have been failed by our leaders, the politicians, bankers and regulators who have failed...over a period of 30+ years, which has resulted in the longest, deepest recession in living memory. Fundamental changes to our financial systems are needed, to make them work for us the people and not for the leaders. 1. Stopping the leaders awarding each other honours for failure is a good start. 2. Reforming the systems to prevent reward for failing the people this happening again must be next. We need to fix our broken economy and our broken democracy, to provide for us and our children, and future generations."

and the following:

"Along with many other politicians, bankers and regulators, (HS) was(,) according to MPs(,) "asleep at the wheel" and in part responsible for the financial crisis that ordinary people are having to pay for. It is wrong that he and others are rewarded for failing the people, and we call for...all others responsible for contributing to the financial crisis, to be barred from nomination for honours for a period of at least 10 years."

Now, given that I have excised very little from the overall petition text, I don't believe that it conveys a particular impression of a vendetta against Mr Sants personally or indeed omits to draw due attention to and challenge and question the system under which the honour concerned has been made possible - in other words, the one that you believe is responsible for the problems visited upon us all.

I'm not therefore disagreeing with Steven Farrell in principle; however, if it takes one particular event to focus attention on the need for its reform, then so be it.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 11:04

Well, at last glance, it's 111 for the HM Government e-petition and 417 (including that of Steven Farrell) for the avaaz one, which suggests that, at the very least, the total signatories are 306. The avaaz one is currently getting at least a couple of new signatories by the minute. My concern remains as to what will happen to the avaaz one when whoever decides it's submission time submits to Parliament a petition on something not covered under Parliament's own petitioning scheme (at least to the extent of the avaaz one calling for withdrawal of Mr Sants' knighthood).

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Steven Farrall

Jan 03, 2013 at 12:36

It's more than the 'system'. It's us. Or a lot of us. Many IFA's have colluded in the introduction of the RDR, which is a deeply undemocratic authoritarian measure that simply deprives people of their private property and their living. The Failed FSA's justifications are simply lies. But we all have corners of latent authoritarianism within us where we petition Government to stop someone else doing something we don't like, or which threatens our own vested interests. The factthat the likes of the AIFA, the CII and the IFP 'embraced' RDR just confirms my point. Sants K is a product of that universal acceptance of authoritarianism. The answer is to embrace liberty. Once you are clear about the irrevocable link between Liberty and Responsibility all the tawdry lexicon of regulationism becomes just that, tawdry and meaningless. The regulationists have no answer.

So make the anti-regulation argument from the point of view of Liberty and then build from that into why Sants K is so corrupt.

You will have noticed that Douglas Carswell MP is already on that argument. As a regular contributor to the comments on his blog, I hope that I have had some luck in drawing his attention to this disgrace.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 03, 2013 at 13:02

@ Stephen Farrall

It is past the time for debate we know all the arguments and we know that RDR was not "embraced" by the majority it was imposed by the beneficiaries of RDR

The objection was not on a commission bias but on the FACT that the stated objective of making qualified advice more available was NEVER going to work. It will drive the average person, at best, to a web based solution

It is now time for action and we can start with saying no to rewarding failure and the growth of Orwellian Rules

Petition up to 132

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 13:05

@ Steven Farrall:

Apologies for mis-spelling you earlier!

Whilst I'm not about to argue with the central thrust of what you write here, my concern is that too many comments and responses to this honour are unduly IFA-centric and yours takes this kind of thing to the point at which an argument might be put up that IFAs are at least partly responsible for both the shortcomings of the regulatory system and the situation that allows honours to be bestowed and hefty bonuses paid to people in return for inadequate handling of their briefs. This is a much bigger issue than just one that affects - or could apparently be argued by some as partly caused by - the actions and inactions of IFAs.

That at least two MPs are now publicly calling Mr Sants' knighthood into question on the grounds that it exemplifies a debasement of the honours system itself is surely evidence that this is not a mere matter of handfuls of IFAs whingeing about the conduct of Mr Be-afraid-be-very-afraid because they don't approve of what he's done or failed to do while in office as FSA's CEO.

Again, I'm not taking a view opposite to yours, but knighthoods are witnessed by all, not just those in the same profession as those so honoured and, as I've already stated, these petitions are likely to go nowhere at all if broadly confined to disaffected and disgruntled IFAs, of which there were never anywhere near 100,000 even before RDR was ever hatched! The only hope here, it seems to me, is for the successful and effective publication of sufficient and sufficiently damning material that prompts the general public who have been gravely affected by the banking crisis alone to take action by signing up.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 03, 2013 at 13:33

There are two issues here. The first is why was the FSA asleep on the job when it was widely known that we were at a tipping point on leverage from about May 2004

It was the packaging of rubbish in credit insured institutional product by Banks that caused the defaults as the counterparty was not of the standard implied by the "guarantee"

Should there be a substantial gap between turning from game keeper to poacher to ensure that the second does not contain a reward for favours in the former

In May 2004 Sants joined the Financial Services Authority as the Managing Director responsible for Wholesale and Institutional Markets. He was appointed FSA Chief Executive in July 2007.

The Buck stops where??

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Mike Hardy

Jan 03, 2013 at 13:47

136 Keep it going guys

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Simon Mansell

Jan 03, 2013 at 13:51

@Steven Farrall

Steven Farrall has hit the nail firmly on its head. The problem is set to increase as the FCA grows its greater unaccountability at a time when some relax in the thinking that RDR is the last of this bully’s abuse.

There has been a general assumption in this modern age that things get better, but they do not and each generation needs to uphold the values acquired by earlier generations or we slip back. These are your rights and not owned by the FCA or parliament who are mere custodians and complicit in their theft.

And where did these rights come from? They were fought by better men and women that you and I. The price they paid was in many cases the blood by our forefathers, women suffragettes, trade unions and on. These values were not handed to us by benevolent fictional occupants of Downton Abbey, they were fought for and wrenched from the clasp of the ruling elite, who now seek to retake ownership via “b-lister” non-conviction politicians. Just look at the membership of this club and how they benefit each other at the expense of this country!

In law there exists a legal axiom that you may not “delegate delegated powers”. But who cares for the law! The real question one must ask is how can your elected MP sit back and allow his/her democratic powers (given to him/her by popular vote) to be given away to an unelected dictatorship? On the 8th of June the TSC recommended the FSA/FCA became accountable to parliament and yet even this has been rejected by this authoritarian regime. This award to Sir Hector is an affront to decent right thinking people and shows that you must never appeases a bully and that the fight is as critical as ever.

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Ian Lees

Jan 03, 2013 at 14:13

It is interesting that after the You S of A has put a sticking plaster over their financial wounds - hector hops out - into the arms of barclays meet with other knights . . . . Rake and . . . . the Libor fiddling employees and negligent directors . .. .

However, now through the dying embers and demise of the FSA is upon us - arise the pheonix of regulation - we have the FCA - the Fiscal Cliff Authority ? ? ? ?

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 03, 2013 at 17:54

Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 18:08

The following is already over three years old:

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/regulation/-2300-have-no-confidence-in-fsa/1001293.article

To what extent its take-up by the current Government has led to the demise of FSA and its replacement by FCA and PRA is not for me to conjecture, but it's a piece of background history of no little importance - just as is

http://www.cherryplc.co.uk/uploads/DOCS/The_FSA___An_affront_to_Parliament_1769.pdf

from the following year.

These are papers with which relevant senior members of the current Government are aware to greater or lesser degree.

HM the Queen herself made some askance comments about FSA only last year during a tour of BoE; that kind of thing doesn't occur very often, as she is habitually very guarded about such matters.

This is just a part of the backdrop to what we're discussing here and should make the bestowing of the honour concerned all the more remarkable.

So far, it's 160 to the Government e-petition and 960 to the avaaz one.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 21:20

OK, so now it's 166 to the Government one and 1,016 to the other one - a continuously widening difference that has now reached 850. Good luck to both!

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 03, 2013 at 21:49

All to impale a Man who has apparently fine well for himself?

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 03, 2013 at 23:13

@ Trevor Whiting:

You really haven't been reading much of this at all, have you?! This is not principally about "Mr Sants" for the sake of "Mr Sants"; it's about what made the whole situation possible, Mr Sants and all.

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Ian Lees

Jan 04, 2013 at 07:17

It never fails to amaze me of the Ruse and Rants of Sants ! Sants failures - and his personal trophies of extortionate levels of salaries, bonuses and pension funds - whilst at previous employer, the FSA and now Barclays. A cynical person might wonder . . . . . why he is given a knighthood ? - when he was heading up a "regulator" ( or is it just a conspiracy ruse to cover up the most blatant attack on peoples savings - by insurance companies and their cronies and conspirators in Parliament ? e.g. MP's and their advisers ). Insurance companies - and banks - who held so much of the voting public's money - before being driven into insolvency Insurance companies and lenders e.g banks . . . who have destroyed their businesses - by their lack of governance on their own employees (corporate negligence ? ) - their agents - whilst turning their UBS " blind eye " to these tactics - ripping of initially With Profits policy holders. Then ripping off Endowment holders. Bank lenders offering 11 times earnings to potential house purchasers - e.g Natwest - whilst under ownership of RBS - now repossessing - these properties under the FSA Rules and regulation. Then ripping off pension policy holders - this fraud is reduced to " missselling, churning etc.," all under their UBS like " Blind Eye ", at Board level, at regulator level ( including Sir Howard Davies - (another knight )- through to Hector Sants ) and at Government level - now that would be the most sinister corruption !

With insurance companies and bank lenders claiming to pay their negotiated and agreed fines for the FSA - where is that money now ? There should be an audit trail - who has paid ? and who has yet to pay ? It is interesting that bank directors commit fraud and corruption - get away scot free ( no pun intended ) - then the companies they run and exploit . . . . become insolvent ( by abuse e.g andy hornyby at halifax HBos now TSB) - then get the tax payer TSB is owned 41% by the taxpayer i.e MP's and government - RBS 70 % or more ) to pay the fines to the regulator and the government ? Can any good quality journalist help me find out who has paid their fines - or are these claims just misleading myths - or is it just another FSA whitewash ?

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 04, 2013 at 08:21

@alistair hinton

I have better things to do with my time than sign pointless petitions

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Ian Lees

Jan 04, 2013 at 08:35

It is dissapointing you can find the time to type these retorts - but canot find the time or commitment to sign a petition ?

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 09:07

@ Trevor Whiting

When you have been in the business for more than 10 years you might have a better feel for the bigger picture 11 months of bond flogging at Towrey isn't great training is it

Generally it is a good idea to find time for important rather the than urgent matters and to know the difference

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 09:08

@ Trevor Whiting:

Not only did I not specifically request that you personally sign any petition (that is, as indeed it should be, your prerogative), it is clear that the amount of time required to sign one - which has only to be done once - is considerably less than the amount of time required to fire off responses here - which you have done more than once.

I suggest that 172 people have signed one petition and 1,073 the other is arguably of more general interest than what you have to do with your time.

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Mike Hardy

Jan 04, 2013 at 09:24

I am still busy lobbying away. Well done to all those who are finding the time in their busy schedules. Keep up the good work.

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 04, 2013 at 09:34

@arthur Schopenhauer

Right order facts get your. Have been in the business for 32 years, have advised on one bond, have never sold an endowment, have never directly worked for Towry Law and for the record do not agree with either petition and not surprised you have such a low return on both. Just fascinated by IFA obsession with things that are unimportant

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 09:53

@ Trevor

Sorry I thought you would be the active one rather than the inactive

TGW00005 Mr Trevor Gerard Whiting Inactive

TNW00007 Mr Trevor Neil Whiting Active

Sounds like one year 32 times rather than 32 years of experience

Still think your time planning could benefit from prioritising

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Mike Hardy

Jan 04, 2013 at 10:02

http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/ifaonline/news/2233776/sants-knighthood-petition-receives-1-000-signatures

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 10:14

@ Trevor Whiting:

OK, so you do not agree in principle with either petition; that's your prerogative, just as it is your prerogative to decline to sign either. That said, however, your stance appears to confirm that you are, broadly speaking, content with the manner in which FSA has been run during the CEOship of Mr Sants, which is evidently not a majority view.

As to the alleged "low return" on the petitions, 180 on one and 1,115 on the other may be a low tally to date but, even assuming that every one of the 180 signatories of one have also signed the other (which is not certain), what proportion of IFAs is 1,115? - and the avaaz petition has been running for less than a week, as far as I know.

"Right order facts get your" is a self-undermining phrase insofar as it does not of itself constitute a sentence even when the words are placed in the correct order. Neither the number of bonds on which you have advised (and you do not specify which type) nor the endowments you have or have not sold nor the fact that you have never worked directly for Towry Law (have you therefore worked "indirectly" for that firm?) is relevant to the subject under discussion here; after all, had you advised on more bonds and/or sold endowments and/or worked directly for Towry Law can have no conceivable impact upon the decision of whoever it was to recommend that Hector Sants be knighted.

Heat stay if kitchen out like you the don't of the.

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 10:23

@Alistair Hinton

As an aside, the last person I came across that could not complete a sentence was Fred West

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Ian Lees

Jan 04, 2013 at 11:05

interesting circle of friends ?

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 12:15

188 / 1,200.

Some people care, obviously - not least

http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/68880/lord_oakeshott_.html

In what follows it will be useful to ascertain precisely who it was that recommended this honour and have them give reasons why they did so.

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Simon Mansell

Jan 04, 2013 at 12:25

@Trevor Whiting

Hello Trevor, I have read several of your comments and understand (not agree) the points you are making. However, the knighthood is as symbolic as as is this opposition. It has nothing to do with Hector Sants the man who probably is a decent chap and top in his field.

CS Lewis said the greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" that Dickens loved to paint ..... it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices. Sir Hector is a victim of the system as the adviser community, but the difference is his reward is a knighthood and his policies have destroyed many livelihoods.

The fact remains that a knighthood should not be awarded to a failed regulator who presides over an unaccountable body executive. No such institution should ever be unaccountable. Mark my words this has nothing to do with Hector Sants, regulation or regulators and everything to do with accountability under the law and parliament. I’m sure you share these views and understand the Rule of Law which if applied to the FSA you will find fails the FSA on every test applicable.

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Ian Lees

Jan 04, 2013 at 12:42

Ah " Dens of crime " is that E dens ( of crime ) burgh - ? Rather than give Hector a " knighthood ", perhaps they could go halfway and give him a " knitted hood ", made of pure wool - that could give him - something else to scratch ? He could then fit in with ex unknighted hood Sir Fred ( or as he is now known in perts o' Paisley as . . . . . . "ordinary fred " or . .. . . . " yon big banker ? ) or his colleague Sir Tom Mckillop of RBS and preciosuly of "shit fitters", quick fitters before claims - or sir Shady Crombie ( named after a coat ) or Sir Michael Rake Chair person of BT and Director Barclays or . . . . I wonder who will be forst to write a book .. . on how to fail and become a knight . . . of the Realm ( and not just . . . . the Woman's Realm ? ) . . . and how you can abuse the privledge of the knighthood . Off with their heads I say !

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Julian Stevens

Jan 04, 2013 at 13:04

God, this thread is going on and on and on. I find it difficult, Simon, to perceive Hector Sants as a victim by any measure. He:-

1. was very well paid during his period of tenure at the FSA,

2. enjoyed an extremely lavish expense account (£132,000 travel/motoring expenses in 2010, I recall),

3. was allowed free rein to ignore totally the requirements of the Statutory Code of Practice for Regulators (why has the TSC never challenged this?),

4. (almost certainly) sanctioned that all but criminally massive pay-off for Clive Briault (cronyism of the worst type),

5. successfully wriggled out of the various awkward questions put to him by the TSC,

6. with impunity waved two fingers at the Committee's request for consideration to be given to postponing RDR Red Button Day,

7. jumped ship 9 months before the FSA is due to be flushed away down the toilet of history (hopefully with most of its own brown matter), but

8. still got 6 months gardening leave on full pay and

9. his knighthood (for which reason alone Barclays will probably invite him onto its board before too much longer).

If this is life as a victim, please sign me up forthwith.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 14:33

197 / 1281 now.

Pertinent points indeed from Simon Mansell and Julian Stevens but I'm inclined to go with the latter rather more than the former whose effort to exonerate Mr Sants personally from what he correctly writes about FSA and its lack of accountability is less than convincing.

At one of the TSC meetings in which Mr Sants brushed as much as possible aside, he claimed wholehearted support for FSA's accountability and even that this should be increased, yet has this occurred on his watch? Was Tchaikovsky an Irishman? Mr Sants's position as CEO of FSA was one of considerable power enhanced as a consequence of FSA's evident contempt for the Code that Mr Stevens mentions as well as it statutory immunity from damages in respect of its actions or inactions. TSC cannot credibly challenge FSA's riding roughshod over the Code because, as Mr Stevens himself knows, HMT has no legal powers to police FSA's compliance therewith, which makes a mockery of its very existence at least where FSA is concerned.

Had Mr Sants put his not onconsiderable money where his mouth happened to be on that occasion and instigated the withdrawal of FSA's legal immunity and ensured that HMT be granted due powers to police FSA's compliance with the Code, he'd have created some credible mitigating circumstances towards meriting his knighthood. He could have done these things. He didn't.

If this is life as a victim, I'd like to be signed up, too, but I'd prefer Mr Sants' Barclays remuneration package in place of the gong were I offered the choice...

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Steven Farrall

Jan 04, 2013 at 14:58

You have to understand that the whole of the regulatory bureaucracy set up under the FSMA2000 is constitutionally corrupt. Sants(and his cronies) are masters at exploiting that opportunity for their own ends. The whole structure has invented a language of regulationism which resembles Newspeak. Things like 'consumer detriment' for example. There is a report on the stuff made by some apparatchik in the regulators or a perhaps a tame 'academic' which I have read and had peer reviewed. Consenus is that is utter rubbish. Now in the TSC in order to blacken the success of IFA's, instead of referring to our very low complaints record with the FOS which would have shown that only about 2% of upheld complaints were down to IFA;s Sants asserted that IFA's were resposnible for 40% of consumer detriment. In other words in all the cases the FSA 'checked' they identified consumer detriment in 40% of them. Since the whole concept of CD is nonsense this figure is nonsense. But Sants persosted with it. That is straightforward deceit.

The point of all this is that Sants is unconcerned about the truth in any way shape or form. he can use these cod ideas to dissemble as an when he likes. What we have to do is challenge each and every one of them all the time.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 18:32

@ Steven Farrall:

Absolutely correct in all particulars; this is what accounts for the substance of Joe Egerton's article to which I posted a link above.

"Consumer detriment" as anything other than either the direct and provable consequence of mis-selling or some other misdemeanour that would merit an acceptably upheld complaint is indeed meaningless so, as so small a proportion of financial services complaints are upheld against IFAs, this 40% for 2% is indeed nonsense - and dangerous and deceitful nonsense at that.

Given the sheerly palpable smugness of Mr Sants' FSA colleagues in at least two TSC meetings in which he tried this one on, praised the notion of transparency and accountability for FSA where in reality it barely exists and much else besides, it is perhaps only fair to point out, as others have already done here, that it's the underlying culture - particularly that arising from aspects of FSMA2000 - that is fundamentally at fault here, not just the sheer arrogance of Mr Sants himself; that said, Mr Sants, as FSA's CEO for several years, was in a sufficiently powerful position to ensure that these and other wrongs, injustices and misunderstandings were duly righted and seen to be so but, instead of sailing against the tide in so doing, he merely supported that culture and, in so doing, became one of its most prominently visible and audible representatives.

"Knight errant", perhaps?...

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 18:56

200

have a great weekend

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 19:08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUC5-6knEKw

If you don't think this damages our international reputation think again see this link

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Ian Ashleigh

Jan 04, 2013 at 19:21

I am impressed with the investment in time and energy that has been put into pursuing this petition but I fear you are choosing the wrong battle. It appears that part of our discredited honours system rewards simple longevity (in the case of entertainers) or climbing the greasy pole (business people and civil servants). It would appear that part of the remuneration of CEO of the financial services regulator includes the granting of the title ‘Sir’ to replace Mr and thus Messrs Bailey and Wheatley have joined the queue for the requisite gong. I am sure we can all name individuals locally who have worked tirelessly for the good of their local communities without hope or expectation of any reward who and make a difference to people’s lives in meaningful ways on a daily basis, but that is not the issue.

If the IFA world had rallied together in this way historically (with or without AIFA and its predecessors) we may not have been having this debate and indeed may have a different regulatory landscape. I am sorry to observe that the tone of some postings indicates that the author would prefer no regulation to any regulation whatsoever and some authors have already substituted pejorative words for the acronym FCA – these are the minority but they are there.

We have a more important battleground and one that we can and should have more influence over. The FSA is currently consulting within CP 12/34 about draconian changes to the Threshold Conditions and how they are applied and also changes to the supervisory and enforcement tools that will become available under the FCA. The closing date for the consultation is 29th January, there is not much time – how many of you have read it and taken on board the implications of the proposed changes? If we can get 200+ individual responses to FSA giving well argued and cogent reasons for why these draconian measures should NOT be absorbed into the new FCA rulebook we may just stand a chance of heading these off. There are other proposals in the pipeline and we should be ready to engage constructively to put our viewpoints and try to shape the regulator. I do not believe that the regulator, the Treasury or the Bank of England really want to see off the IFA community, I also believe that with the energy displayed here we could have had very different outcomes for the RDR. The RDR started with good intentions but too many vested interests turned a potential racehorse into a camel. The regulator seems to believe that we are all guilty of actively wanting to circumvent the rules to the detriment of our clients until we prove ourselves innocent, now is the time to show them with a united cohesive voice that they are wrong.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 04, 2013 at 20:37

Some good sense (though not entirely) from Ian Ashleigh at last! Thanks for that.

The nub of the problem, however, is not so much about disaffected and angry IFAs railing against inappropriate behaviour on the part of FSA (or its current successor FCA) but about the law itself - i.e. the relevant law, FSMA2000, which is what gives the powers to the financial services regulator past and present that are to some degree questionable and in certain particulars exclusive to it with no apparent reason to account for, let alone defend, such powers; it is not reasonable to accuse the IFA community or indeed any other individual interest group of failure to deal with this problem just because it exists and affects them.

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Chris Challouma

Jan 04, 2013 at 21:37

I agree with Alistair that Ian has made some excellent points, Its just sad that the FSA is untouchable, the last person that stood up to them over pension mis-selling was a CEO of a large Company shortly afterward he was nowhere to be seen, shame because he was the best CEO I have ever known,hence no one has stood up to them because they know they will not get away with it,I hope the IFA community will still be around in the next 10, years the way things are going the banks will take over which will be a sad day for every one .

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 04, 2013 at 23:15

@ Ian Ashleigh

The consultation process has not really been an effective forum for influencing regulation It has just been lip service

Madness is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result We need a more radical approach

If the petition and lobbying of the politicians works then they may have to think again. Starting with the current objection to rewarding failure

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 05, 2013 at 10:09

I think - indeed, I am certain - that it will take far more than just the IFA community standing up to FSA - or FCA as it is now - for anything useful to be achieved; that said, it is up to that community to set an example by taking the lead and bringing the issues about which it knows best before the wider public, many members of which would not otherwise even realise that the financial services regulator is in practice so unaccountable to Parliament and exonerated from legal liability for damages in respect of its actions and inactions in the course of carrying out the duties with which it is charged. Petitioning is just one way towards this; if those here who do not favour it have any better ideas that they believe might in practice prove more effective, please share them with us.

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Simon Mansell

Jan 05, 2013 at 10:26

@Alistair

I would agree but the FSA actually is the government, their modern equivalent to Nationalisation! It suits the ruling class to have a henchman to to its deeds without accountability and at the same time claim regulatory independence.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 05, 2013 at 13:37

The very fact that FSA was - and now FCA is - NOT the Government (it's a company limited by guarantee) is what gives it the "regulatory independence" (some euphemism, that!) which allows it to ignore Government if so it chooses (just as it has done, for example, with a number of approaches to it from TSC); all too often, FSA has conveyed the distinct impression that it considers itself to be above Government, above Parliament and above the law when it suits it to be any of those things. Some UK national industry regulators ARE arms of Government and some are not.

There has been a no-confidence document served on Parliament and a more detailed one outlining FSA as an affront thereto which it has arguably been on many occasions. I don't know who you mean by your use of the term "the ruling class" although it's a term whose contemporary use is, in my experience, one to which those of Marxist persuasion often have recourse when describing the wealthy and powerful (not that I'm suggesting anything of the kind in your case), but the consequences of the gross dereliction of duties of which FSA has been widely accused (and by no means only by the IFA community) are unlikely to do anyone, even including those wealthy and powerful, any financial favours in the long run although, of course, they'll not suffer from these consequences as much as will the less well off.

If sufficient attention of the right kind is drawn, via petitioning or any other means, to the woefully unsatisfactory state of affairs that has created the climate in which FSA has been able to get away with acting as it has - and seizing upon the knighthood of Mr Sants merely as a catalyst - then Government itself will find itself in the firing line, as indeed should be the case, since only Government can control the powers given to and exercised by the financial services regulator; if such approaches serve to highlight the fact that it is itself in dereliction of its duty to the public to do just that, it could and indeed should mark the start of the kind of fundamental overhaul that we all require and that will be in almost everyone's interests.

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Simon Mansell

Jan 05, 2013 at 19:20

@Alistair

Regulatory independence is a smoke screen. FSMA 2000 granted these powers, (an Act of Parliament). As Sir Hector said on March the 9th to the TSC it is up to parliament to legislate if they want to restrict regulatory powers. The FSA FCA is a parliamentary mad dog that has slipped the leash of accountability, but it is the owner of this dog that is responsible and that remains parliament who could tether this mad dog once more. They have not! The FSA/FCA is therefore a reflection of parliaments will. It must be so because it is inconceivable that it should have a greater power than parliament itself. It suits government to regulate in this way because it circumvents accountability and facilitates an elected dictatorship. In short it is undemocratic and an abuse of rights. The FCA was a missed opportunity to remedy this abuse.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 06, 2013 at 09:23

@ Simon Mansell:

Indeed so - this is precisely the point that I was making and, if the petitions or other means of approach and drawing attention to the problem are accepted by Parliament, it will become clearer that it (i.e. Parliament) bears ultimate responsibility for allowing at least some of what has happened to happen and that Mr Sants' knighthood has merely proved to be the catalyst for such approaches; this, as you rightly observe, is because FSMA2000 (which grants FSA its powers) is an Act of Parliament.

That said, Mr Sants' shortcomings on the job are not all the fault of an inappropriately and unjustly conceived Act of Parliament, so it's not ALL Parliament's fault!

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Arthur Schopenhauer

Jan 06, 2013 at 09:42

At 210 signatures this is going to struggle to get to 100,000 and if apathy is to rule then all these noble observations (most of them) are a waste of time.

So if you accept that there is no real accountability and they sincerely do not care about the damage caused by an over application of poorly thought out regulation what is the action required

Abandon the concept that hope will produce sudden enlightenment.

It would seem that if you cant beat them either leave the UK to a place where the talents can be used without the unacceptable commercial risk or find a business that reward appropriately. There are richer places on earth than the UK or even the Euro zone

I say this because I fear that the new regulatory regime, with absolute power and encouraged by the impotence of the IFA community, will finally kill the patient with its treatment

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 06, 2013 at 12:22

@ Arthur Schopenhauer

I follow this with Interest and not surprised so few have signed. As you know I'm fairly ambivalent to the petition, however if you truly wanted success you need to up the ante. You would need to get the star performer to put his or her points across on a high profile TV channel. If I was in your camp I would volunteer but without someone putting their head above the parapet and performing well you will never obtain the critical mass you require. Apart from all else, you get a very quick result, may not be what you want OR may not go exactly in the direction you desire, but it is a result.

Suggest the result would quell a lot of uber frustration I see on the blog, good luck and hope it helps you

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Trevor Whiting

Jan 06, 2013 at 12:29

In furtherance to my comment, it's very important to keep the delivery simple and understandable to the masses. There has been some very clever words used from participants on this blog, almost at times reaching for my dictionary but keep it from losing its potency.

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Steven Farrall

Jan 07, 2013 at 09:24

The best thing about this thread is that it has developed into a proper argument about the fact that Sants K is s symptom of the wider cronyism and corruption of the state and its Satraps in the bureaucracy.

It has become clear that we, as IFA's, are just one part of a much wider problem of failed regulationism and that we are not fighting just of rour own liberty and property rights, but for the liberty and property rights of everyone.

I have been saying this for years, and gradually more and more people are getting it.

So by all means petition for Sants to lose his K (fat chance) but also make it very clear that the whole bloody system is utterly corrupt.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 07, 2013 at 11:23

@ Steven Farrall:

I agree entirely; in fact, the only possible good thing that has the potential to emerge from the news of and responses to Mr Sants' knighthood is the focusing of due attention on the overall issue; that said, even if every practising IFA singed either or both current petitions, the signatory tally will fall way short of the requisite 100K, so it needs somehow to be marketed to the wider public. Large swathes of that public might not immediately care about the issue, but if among what it put to it is the unwarranted legal immunity that FSA enjoys and the power that this has provided to it to ride roughshod over people's interests and get away with it while omitting to take due action over the banking crisis, it might begin to make its mark. It would have to be pitched with great care in the right way for it to have the desired effect.

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Steven Farrall

Jan 07, 2013 at 12:01

@Alastair Hinton

Remind me of the links to the two petitons and I'll pst them to Facebook.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 07, 2013 at 12:38

@ Steven Farrall:

The avaaz one (which now has 1,553 signatories of which most recent of which is from a B Diamond - make of that what you will or won't!) is at

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Withdraw_Hector_Sants_Nomination_for_Knighthood_Reform_The_System/?tpulPdb

and the Parliamentary e-petition(which currently has 222) is at

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31608

Many thanks in advance. Any similar ideas will be welcome and might help to attract the desired attention to this.

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Ian Lees

Jan 07, 2013 at 13:31

Given that these nighthhods are given out to Radio DJ's, like Woe gun , a rower, a cyclist and a song and tap dance man - it is hardly surprising that having reduced the quality of the standards - to such demeaning levels - that the gift of a nighthood to hector sants - for his lack of service to being a "regulator", and the on going failure of his regulaotrory body the fickele services authority - it should be hardly surprising, and probably should have received it earlier. Given the requirements of a nighthood - we should all apply ( and probably get one ).

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Steven Farrall

Jan 07, 2013 at 15:53

There is a Big Fight going on now. It's the same fight that has always gone on. It's between the power and entitlement seeking power elites and the rights of the private citizen to enjoy liberty and the right to his private property. Self evidently in the case of the failed FSA the power elite has well, failed. The moment they admit this they are doomed hence all the spin and lies to maintain their power.

This is now starting to unravel as millions more people realise just how they are being shafted by these corrupt self serving numpties. sants K is a symptom of this corruption. It might be the high water mark.

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Ian Lees

Jan 07, 2013 at 16:07

The struggle for power ? what we call the " Power Rangers ", except like the government and uk plc - the " Rangers" ( de glasgow ) is bust. Power crazed individuals who like scottish Widows are stalinist freak control merchants - dictating what we ( the owners of our own money ) want to do with it. Similarly Bationwide the reluctant building society - reluctant in releasing customers ( of this failed building society who claim to be "Mutual") money, and refuse to provide any proper or accurate method of taking your money out of the flexi account - which used ot be " instant access " - now though the restrictions placed on Nationwide accounts is severe.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 07, 2013 at 19:22

@ Steven Farrall:

A "high water mark"? We can but hope, though let's hope at the same time that it doesn't turn thereby into an irrevocable case of "not waving but drowning"...

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jonnieb666 via mobile

Jan 08, 2013 at 01:41

As Hector was so explicitly vocal about their being no reward for failure, this announcement beggars belief as he has already admitted the FSA was more focused upon RDR than what the banks were up to. As a result of this and many other failures he gets a huge salary, huge bonus, 6 months garden leave, a new job with one of the big banks with a basic salary of £700k pa and a potential total of £3million pa and is now up for a knighthood! Where is the fairness in any if this? This is another shining example if an unaccountable body which behaves like some crackpot dictatorship that claims to work for "the people". George Orwell wrote a book about this behaviour and now we see it in action. Utterly Shameful!

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Ian Lees

Jan 08, 2013 at 08:23

It is not so much a " highwater mark " , but a tide mark, where all the dirt and grome has collected and been deposited - as the water retreats - and like sit hector disappears down the plughole of life under the fsa and fca. The independent financial advisers like the baby thrown out with the bathwater.

What next - " assistant IFA;s", like the destucton of teachers, the destruction of nurses . . . and the destruction of UK plc. No wonder they a re going for independence north of the Cheviots - and leave the English to be invaded by the Americans ( see banks ) and the Eurpeans ( se Carminac, Aegon etc., ) and the peoples republics of the Far East ( Korean, JApanaese, Chinese )

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Steven Farrall

Jan 08, 2013 at 09:59

@Ian Lees et al

The Failed FSA is aware of Orwell's magnum opus, 1984. Only they look on it as a manual, not a caution.

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 08, 2013 at 10:03

@ jonnieb666:

Mr Sants was equally explicitly vocal in his observations about FSA's accountability to Parliament when questioned on this at a TSC meeting; he claimed to be wholly in favour of such accountability and even amenable to discussions to enhance it. Words are clearly one thing whereas reality is quite different; there is no official procedure for FSA to account to Parliament and HMT has no powers to insist that it does so or police how it might do so in any individual instance, hance FSA's barely concealed contempt for the Statutory Code of Practice for Regulators. In other words, Mr Sants felt able to say whatever he thought might convey the appropriate impression at that meeting (and no doubt elsewhere) in the sure and certain knowledge of the absence of anyone empowered to ensure that his word became his deed.

@ Steven Farrall:

Was the unaccountable financial services regulator around as long ago as 1984 or does it just feel that way?(!)...

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D.LAING

Jan 08, 2013 at 15:50

Can I ask what honour is kept in reserve for the head of the FSA that properly regulated the banks and to quote the Queen saw the crisis coming?

(dont tell me no one did).

On the other hand this award fits exactly in the upside down financial world we now inhabit..

Didnt Philip Green also

receive a knighthood although he or his wife allegedlyreceived a 1£billion dividend tax free

?

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Steven Farrall

Jan 08, 2013 at 17:44

@ D laing

The difference between Sir P Green and Sants is that Green succeeded and earned his money himself by delivering to his customers exactly what they wanted at the price they wanted to pay with no coercion involved at all. Whereas Sants and his crony regulationists applied arbitrary sanctions based on false evidence reinforced by coercion onto private citizens depriving them of their private property and livlihoods, whilst at the same time claiming eye watering entitlements and paying no tax at all whatsoever (no state employee pays any tax at all - any tax they pay is simply a rebate to us real taxpayers in wealth creating private business).

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 08, 2013 at 17:55

@ Steven Farrall:

I was unaware that Mr Sants was a "state employee"; he was CEO of a private company limited by guarantee, surely? I accept the remainder of the comparison, however!

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Steven Farrall

Jan 08, 2013 at 18:02

@ AH

Any organisation funded by taxation - that is fees that are collected and enforceable by state coercion is de facto, government. Apply the Law of Ducks. If something looks like a duck, swims like a duck and above all quacks like a duck, whatever you call it it is an effing duck.

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Ian Ashleigh

Jan 08, 2013 at 19:52

It seems to me that there are now 2 stands to this thread. The discredited Honours system and a regulator created by an unconstitutional act of Parliament.

Personally, I lost faith in the Honours system years ago so I cannot get over-excited about the knighthood for hector sants.

On the question of regulation, have we talked to any of our clients that work in other heavily regulated industries (eg Pharmaceuticals) to gauge their experiences with their regulators - are we unique or is UK regulation managed in the same way.

It occurs to me that we may have allies elsewhere.

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Chris Challouma

Jan 08, 2013 at 20:03

Sants was another Civil Servant paid by the tax payer he was a CEO but than the head of the Council is called a CEO too...and really he is a local government officer again paid by the tax payer..loads of money ...200k + councils employ some 5000 people amazing ...what do they all do?? with some 800million turnover....so the FSA is no different .. like most government jobs ...they dont create wealth they just waste it as we all know...

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Ian Lees

Jan 09, 2013 at 08:43

I heard on the RAdio that two more LloydsTSB Group managers ( Bank of Scotland ) have been referred to Court in Reading - for the part they played in fraud. Sir Hector Sants presided over the Directors of LloydsTSB Group - who turned their blind eye - when they were paid bonuses for achievements for fraud by those employed = on behalf of themselves and their employers. I wonder what qualifications they had ? level four or above ? It seems to me that increasing the levels of qualifications - means the fsa - who have no qualification ( between them ) - cannot keep up - and increased levels of qualifications merely increases the size of the fraud e.g UBS, Mr Leeson BCCI, HSBC LloydsTSB and RBS ? All of whom sell products such as life assurance endowments and pensions. All independent, all reckless and remote - all charges with felonies all Directors escape imprisonment - all under Hector Sants - who receives the gift of a knighthood - you could not make this up !

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Alistair Hinton

Jan 09, 2013 at 16:07

http://www.citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/fsa-systems-failure-causes-adviser-email-mix-up/a649626?re=22041&ea=317026&utm_source=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_PM&utm_medium=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_PM&utm_campaign=BulkEmail_NMA_Daily_PM

doesn't exactly inspire confidence either, does it? OK, FSA is by no means the only large organisation that has allowed itself to fall foul of this kind of carelessness (one has only to consider HMRC which at times appears to have developed unprecedented virtuosity in this and similar practices) and perhaps it didn't happen under the CEOship of Mr Sants but, if indeed it didn't, it might be argued that FSA has left itself all too prone to the commission (sorry to use "commission" and "FSA" in the same sentence!) of such errors irrespective of who's in charge, which in turn might help to focus attention back to the charge that the system is rotten from top to bottom rather than only at the top.

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Fair's Fair

Feb 27, 2013 at 16:41

the phrase 'You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig' comes to mind!

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