Fisher offers help to EJ adviser over delayed redundancy payout

Is there just the one adviser affected by this I wonder?

Having followed this story for months, since the news broke to be honest, I cant decide whether this is a good or bad thing for EJ/Towry Law? There have been so many conflicting stories. I suppose it all depends on who is talking, however, realistically, how many EJ advisers are leaving, being made redundant or are unhappy?

Having worked for the big corporates before, its always going to be 'smoke and mirrors' and you do get stability, however, I would not swap being your own boss, as now, to be back in that position.

If you're good enough, you will succeed whether employed or self employed. There are plenty of smaller firms out there who you would easily slot into (mine included).

To all EJ advisers, there is another world!

I'm surprised that this is deemed newsworthy to be honest.

Slow news day perhaps but the big news seems to be that Mr Fisher seems to think that all ex Edward Jones advisers have hearing deficincies, perhaps he misheard, the acoustics were bad, well it certainly sounds like a pattern is developing, do all Towry Law Wealth advisers come equipped with an ear trumpet?

The person concerned was made redundant on the 23rd December and told that they would be paid redundancy in January payroll - It did not happen but we learn that the weather is to blame, of course Mr Fishers salary was no doubt delayed by the adverse weather conditions too. The person noted in the story has been made redundant, therefore by definition has no job nor money but is expected to accept these feeble excuses as good enough reasons as to why their bills can't be paid.

Of course you can contact Mr Fisher on his mobile number which all advisers have, however as you have left the company you don't have access to this information so an empty handed gesture yet again.

TL have shortchanged lots of advisers, Karl is right about the smoke and mirrors, so if you can work independantly do so, your clients will only benefit from this and financially the rewards should be far superior than the £20k salaries being paid at Towry.

If Andrew Fisher is the Chief Exec of Towry Law, why should he have to resort to providing assistance to this unfortunate individual from his own pocket?

Surely, if the post of Chief Exec counts for anything, Mr Fisher should be able to kick some ass and get the problem sorted PDQ, especially with all that free trail commission pouring in every month.

The more we read about Towry Law, the more ghasty a company it seems to be at every level.

Can anyone clarify - was the redundancy due to be paid in January or was the suggested package details to be communicated out in January?

Either way TL have been consistently slow in communicating with those it does not wish to retain.

Trust me this is not an isolated incidence. All redundancy payments were supposed to be made in January for those, like myself, in the unfortunate (or fortunate some may say) position of being made redundant by TL. These in most instances have been made, but also many are wrong.

TL blame EJ and EJ say they are waiting for TL, the buck is flying back and forth across the pond so quickly I'm surprised any airplanes are allowed to fly!

Yet again another disaster in this start to finish fiasco which makes me more and more happy (once I've had my full compensation package) to be out of it.

Unsurprisingly though Mr "Well Blinkered" Fisher, seems to think that apart from a bit of snow everything in the garden is rosy!

Mr Fisher states that "Bracknell was a disaster area" - well guess what ? It still is. A disaster of a business lead by a disaster of a CEO, making a disaster of every takeover, with a leadership team who are frankly, a disaster and disasterous PR to boot.

The quicker this guy is removed the better.

I haven't been to Bracknell for a few years but I seem to remember it's a fairly large town.... It's Fisher's fault that the snow wasn't cleared? Did everyone you know and/or work with get to work during that time?

Also, if you are ex-TL why do you want him out of there? You seem to think he is running the company into the ground though I don't see any evidence of that. But you hate the company that much and really believe he's incompetent, wouldn't you want him to stay in place?

Also, who exactly is going to remove him? I seem to remember someone stating back in November that he would be gone by the following Tuesday. Of course they didn't say which Tuesday so I'll grant that perhaps I misunderstood the comment. Acoustics you know. :)

Completely off topic, so flame me, the security code showing below to complete my comment ends in ACF, now that is funny.

So, more bad acoustics, confusion, communication error, this was/ is/ always has been a disaster, TL have been making their plans up as they go along, there have been no contingency plans put in place and some clients have only had one letter since the 23rd October when the sorry process started.

Approx 125 contracts signed out of 453 advisers at EJ - not a very good strike rate. The majority of the signees having limited experience/tenure or no option because they are in debt (not too good a sign in an FA?) or too old to move on. They now find themselves with the clients from 3/4/5 offices maybe looking after £30m+ in total after being used to signing up £7k ISAs.

The latest tactics that are being transmitted from TL sales are now coming to light.

Talk to the client about weakness in their EJ portfolio, insist on an immediate meeting to address the risk(but don't disclose anything about the proposition on the telephone) then if the client agrees tell them how their former adviser is now just a little one man band with no financial strength. All seem very reminiscent of dodgy double glazing tactics ( I suppose at the appointment they phone their manager to see if they can get you the special promotional deal if you have a TL sign in your garden!)

Anyway I wish all my fellow advisers well - please remember your ethics when dealing with clients - you know bad practice will just come back and bite you in the end.

Yes Bracknell is a large town and i do not blame Andrew Fisher for the snow and conditions on the roads, however much i would like to.

The reason i would love to see him booted out is that i have many good friends still at TL, and they hate it - they are holding out for the percieved windfall when TL do an IPO (although my money is still on a trade sale).

I was there a long time and loved it - the best job i had quickly became the worst - and i was one of the good guys !

They use phrases like "managing hard" - or bullying to you and me - and then AF spouts on in the press about how bullying staff should not be tollerated.

So my feelings are borne out of concern for my former colleagues and clients who are getting shafted (and they don't realise it); for all the advisers who are slated by Towry Law simply because they are the competition; for the FSA who allow them to be called independent although they only recommend their broker funds.

Actually, although i work for a competitor, i would love TL to do really well and be a very successfull and profitable company. The world is big enough after all and competition is healthy (as long as it is competition based on merit, and not by slagging everyone else off).

I would love this to happen as my friends and ex-colleagues who are stakeholders in the business will see a healthy return for their efforts - and boy they deserve it.

But i am extremely concerned that with the image and reputation they have built under AF, that Palemon will pull the plug and sell out to another institution. AF will be ok as he has squillions of shares however my pals who bring in the business will be left high and dry.

I worry that no decent adviser would ever want to work there - so how does that look long term for the business if they cannot attract quality ? I would love to know if any analysts are reading this to see how TL are percieved in the City - would any institutions be prepared to buy the shares given the reputation of the company. We saw last week about instituations wanting to replace the board of a company as they didn't believe in the people running it - perhaps this is AF's trump card ?

Is he creating an envioronment where the institutions want him replaced at floatation so he can ride off into the sunset, booty intact ?

They say that the personality of a business is a mirror image of its leaders. Towry Law have the personality of Mandleson twinned with Ratner with a large pinch of Tyson.

I have to laugh. Towry Law set up a "Consultative committee" to communicate ALL factors to employees (Employed or redundant). However the communication is by email INTRANET so if your on gardening leave YOU CANT ACCESS THE COMMITTEE?

So much for "open communication" Besides the committee had to sign a confidentiality agreement so the likelyhood of getting an answer is even more remote.

To the ex ej advisor now on gardening leave - question please did you jump or were you pushed?? Scared you couldn't hack it in the 'real' world in a profitable managed business with drive, determination & ambition - are you one of the many who have jumped ship to sjp earn what you want - set your own target - be in debt to them as quick as you can blink sold out by another wooly fluffy pathetic company already looking for a sale?? If you are.... Like many ex ej good luck sounds like frying pan and fire to me!!

As for the EJ staff who have signed we are not all 'in debt' 'inexperienced' neither are we incapable of managing assets of more than a 7k ISA as you put it.........

A lot of us have signed, sitting tight observing the industry & viewing towry law from the inside even if it is a rubbish salary it's a salary and we are in employment not jumped from the frying pan into the fire - on the dole (ellie may where are you help me out here) - or working for someone self employed earning 12k a year mind you a lot of ex ej advisors are used to earning that. You must all have an incredible amount of savings to survive is all I can say.

From my experience there was probabaly 10- 15 ej advisors earning more than 30k a year seg 4/5 and half of those have stayed and signed a new contract.

For all you ex jones still flying the EJ American we are the best advisors/company in the world get a grip.... It was 35m in debt and them taking 67% cuts on commission a big chunk shows to me that our 450 advisors couldn't have been that successful!!

Oh and my next bite back you may slag off the TL client proposition but if you view 25+ jones portfolios they could well be a carbon copy portfolio as advisors were all spoon fed - 20k investments into Newton, a SL fund, invesco, coca cola Corp bond, few tesco shares, oh and if you had an adventurous advisor some vodafone shares!!! Here in I rest my case.......yes I loved the in the community advisor proposition jones believed in shame they had to have expensive premises & an admin person earning more than the advisor to simply answer the telephone, make tea, and scan some paperwork.

Again not TL fault - pig ignorant autocratic stuck in the wild west from 1800s mr kirley & co!

Now I'm not all singing & dancing TL lover either they have handled this whole process ridiculously and have provided me with much amusement.

Ex TL you are right palamon will sell out of this nonsense soon - if they have half a brain between them they will - or lets hope so eh?? At least then my redundancy package will be slightly more than 3k + notice period (if it actually exists or will ever be paid)

here endeth the book - ellie mae where are you - I'm your anon friend - appreciate you can't get me a job at present how about your address I'll visit we can drink moonshine together and amuse ourselves with the bitter people on this site.

OK thanks, that makes sense. Especially the bit about competition being healthy, particularly from the clients' point of view.

As for the snow clearing, that would have been a sight to see :)

I am a little surprised about the bullying suggestion. I do not work in the industry but I would have thought that one of the core traits of a financial advisor is self-confidence and therefore they are not likely to succumb to pressures like bullying? It would be counter-productive. I am a bully of course, but I only do it to The Robot.

The only other thing I would add is from what I have read, Fisher does not need to work, he already has the booty, so he must do this because he enjoys it. A CEO with a passion for their business can only be good? No?

Hey I'm still lurking and reading. Might even break open the moonshine in a while once the sun is over the yardarm here. You would be most welcome to join me but I guess for now it will be a cyber-clink of our glasses.

What I would like to see is Citywire do a follow up article after six months and see how many EJ people are still there and how they feel once the boat has stopped rocking so much.

If you do decide to leave then remember with your sense of humor you could consider stand-up and we have a great Comedy Festival here :)

Now you have just given me a fantastic idea - I'm off to see if I can become chartered in comedy rather than financial planning would make sense really as my chartered financial planning certs are pretty useless certainly in the last jones job suppose really at least I could choose from a pick list at jones - and will be even more useless at towry law as only need to find client 100k - tick box risk assessment - fund ABC or D hey presto - job done!!

Harsh man management, big bad towry law meanies, seems easy to me for my 30k+ ish salary I think.... (if you understand the contract - wish I had a degree in law but even then don't think I'd understand it)

Ellie Mae I'm not leaving my sweet I'm going to crack on and do as I'm told (guy with the robot your bullying - can you come and programme me to deal with my new management structure I'm terrified they'll pull my hair)

I did consider counselling especially anger management I'd make a fortune out of the people on citywire from jones & TL alone let alone the new people that are about to find their redundancy package doesn't exist (I do hope you were chartered educated enough to get it in writing and make sure you are def on garden leave and not being processed in the system to become garden peas and not sweetcorn as you thought!!)

anyways I'm signing off to search for a degree in comedy - ellie mae a cyber moonshine toast 'to my ex ej bitter colleagues - what's wrong realise now your customers don't love you as much as you thought? And actually there are more capable advisors in your place the customers are grateful for - by the way toasting mr fisher for getting them a real advisor with ambition!!

Funny post. Definitely got a chance at stand up, I'd pay to see you in Montreal.

I have an interview next week for a low end part-time job but that's OK. Though I have a horrible feeling that I am not going to be considered really and it's just an exercise in political correctness because I am ancient and will be considered overqualified. How funny is that? You spend your youth wishing you have more experience and diplomas and then spend the latter half of your life trying to downgrade it all just to get a foot int he door.

But at least you and I (Anon) have this to keep us amused :)

Ms Clampett, why wait six months to see who of EJ is still at TL, the biggest test will be the end of the 'consultative' period. I did not mis-hear when on several occasions we were told that a majority of advisers would be retained, and a good number of support staff too - if only 125 advisers out of an initial 425 are remaining, and commensurately fewer support staff then I suggest that TL mis-spoke (or mislead, misstated, deceived, deluded, dissembled, exaggerated etc.).

As EJUK we were performing weakly and haemorrhaging money because the model was not fitted to the UK environment, and because the recruitment process was a shoddy loss making disaster that resulted in inexperienced advisors underperforming (heck, some experienced advisers were. I was). I don't believe that his is a good reason for us to be sold as chattels to a business whose business model was diametrically opposite, which is what happened. But it has given me an insight into what pro-USA vietnamese felt like in April 1975 as the last helicopter left the top of the US embassy in Saigon.

Although not chosen by TL I bear them no ill-will, they obviously felt I was not a strong enough candidate for their proposition (my figures sure weren't), but I am thoroughly disappointed at the way they have systemically failed to remain in contact with EJ advisors not deemed suitable for retention. Baron Münchhausen is right that those of us on gardening leave have very little avenues of contact. But then as Mr Fisher has admitted, TL don't contact thousands of people who's trail commission brings in money to the company so there is no motivation for them to keep in contact with a few hundred employees they don't want to keep.

Oh and Dr. Z Smith - having a passion for something does not mean you are suitable to run the operation - Graham Taylor was passionate about being manager of England's national football team and Dick Fuld was passionate about Lehman Brothers.

A little bitter? Yes. Poor, destitute, or with SJP? No (please give me some credit I told them to F off enough times while I was with Jones).

Not stuck with tick box model portfolios and yes I have been pleasantly surprised that my clients have been calling me every day since I left (resigned not pushed).

What I don't like are the tactics being employed by TL to get appointments with clients (may be an isolated adviser I don't know) which all seem to be centred on negative scare tactics that the client is somehow going to lose their money if they don't move quickly out of their current investments. This is what happens when you base salary on churning assets onto their platform.

There are now 50000 clients for the 125 advisers to look after the vast majority of which don't fit into the TL criteria so it's obvious only those with the required assets will be spoken to whilst the rest will be left with no contact but will be a nice source of trail commission for TL(this will be rebated I'm sure).

I also don't like the seeming lack of forethought that has gone into this and the shabby way it has all been handled.

We could go on all day about why Jones didn't succeed but for those of us who were successful our future career path has been mired by the sheer amount of opportunities that have been available. Those that weren't successful are unlikely to make it work anywhere else (including TL) and these people need to realise sooner or later they shouldn't have been hoodwinked by Jones and they need to sort out a completely new direction (certainly sounds like you fit in this category - and btw you should get over yourself - you're not actually that funny.)

Perhaps there is an opening here as a counsellor for EM?

How dare you say"admin person earning more than the advisor to simply answer the telephone, make tea, and scan some paperwork. "

You were obviously one of those advisers who did nothing. If you worked you earned, simple. The admin person could only work on what work you produced as an FA. With 6 pension transfers, 3 CIBs, 5 appts, and several probate cases on an average day you try making some tea!!!!!

EJ had it wrong - admitted, but TL is worse.

I have no position with TL, but I am being used, without any training or future to process unfamiliar work. TL obviously had

no idea what they were taking on and have no intention of doing the right thing for the employees of EJ let alone the clients. Mr Fisher looks silly by offering to help someone out of his own pocket - he should be making sure his staff are getting things correct - first time - that's their motto isn't it? I continue to sit, wait, wonder and worry....

Glad your not that bitter........ I have to say 99% of your comments I totally agree with there are new advisors using 'scare tactics' as this is the only method they know - they sholdn't be in the job in the first place (welcome to the world of Jones), however it is an isolated incident..... from what I can see, hear and tell most advisors are merely trying to place the customers at ease and from my experience most are satisfied and don't really care about a change in advisor. Be a shoulder for the BOAs, and have a huge amount of self preservation in this mess!!

You are obviously extremely lucky to have your customers ringing you every day and must be extremely popular - live in a small community do you? And I do sincerley apologise for mentioning the letters SJP to you - was just going with the majority as that's where most of the 300 odd advisors are - are they not? You must know you seem to be in the hub of everything....

Anyway question if I may please? If you are soooo successful, intellegent, handsome, gorgeous etc etc.. and resigned from shoddy law then why are you still in the hub of all the gossip of the EJ/TL saga and concerning yourself with it all - why are you not out making a million for yourself??

Can't take off your headsquare/take your rollers out and away from the back fence of the gossip long enough - or scared your customers will get bored of ringing you or get impatient whislt you mull over your 100s of job offers from all the great companies out there offering you?

Anyway as for me being funny or not as the case may be - my humour is not intended to offend anyone upset anyone but my way of venting my frustration - sarcasam is the highest form of defence mechanism so they say!! Therefore I am well over myself a long long time ago.......

On the subject of Bracknell, isn't it ironic that the the biggest bunch of cowboys in financial services are based in Western Road ?? Wild !

Those of you who had the sense or forsight to not accept the TL offering should be very pleased with yourselves. Well done to you all, and I'm sure that having experienced working for TL I will soon be on the first train out! Many other advisers and administrators are thinking the same and attending interviews to escape the TL hell. Will send a postcard once I'm out!

LOL it would involve a bit of a commute but nice thought. But even if I did live right there I would not be able to work for TL ;)

Are you in Bracknell? Understand if you would rather not say. My moonshine shot is still raised to clink yours in a toast either way. Just curious. Hope it works out for you, at TL, or elsewhere, or on the comedy circuit.

Your #1 fan Ellie Mae.

Hi EM,

No I'm not in Bracknell - I'm from the land of the wild & free!

This site is brilliant ain't it? I've eventually found somewhere I can put all my years of mentoring from billy Connolly into practice....

Anyway sure glad I'm not in Bracknell - if your from there you even get blamed for not being a snow plough??......

Good luck for your job interview if they don't hire you they're stupid no matter how old you are as your quality.....

Maybe we can set up our own blog and combine it with counselling all the ej/tl lovers

"moonshine madness" come & vent all your fury here!!

Oh btw I've signed My TL contract now get me outta here - have you studied poetry??? Your note was very poetic make it into a song - me & EM can sing it after a few too many moonshine & sherry.....

Have a good evening everyone........ Need my beauty sleep to prepare for my 'hard man management tom' my shins are going to be kicked...

Just heard Andrew fisher singing this song to the tune of Sweet Molly Malone, not sure if its anything to read into but wouldn't be singing along if you've signed a contract:

In Bracknells fair town

Where the folk are all down

I first set my eyes on sweet Towry Law,

With their advisers all bitter

and lots of them quitters

crying rip off our clients alive a live oh

Alive alive oh, alive alive oh, crying rip off our clients alive alive oh.

Now Towry have no-one and no one could save them,

And that was the end of sweet Towry Law,

But the ghosts of advisers

Who now are all misers

crying service our clients alive-alive oh.

Alive alive oh, alive alive oh, crying rip off our clients alive alive oh.

Excellent post Baron - that really should be the end for this blog however I do fear it will carry on.

Anon - I apologise, you obviously have a little more intellect/literary talent than some of the poor souls who have contributed here. (some of the spelling/typos/ grammar make me wonder how they got jobs in the first place - then again EJ recruitment left a lot to be desired!).

I hope your shin kicking went well today< as you can see I am at a loose end again having signed my lease, ordered my IT I fear all I can do is carry on with the list of jobs my wife has left me.

If I'm not mistaken there must be a job available as a headmaster somewhere up there - correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree about your identity.

Thank you for your apology I'm glad we agree on at least jones ridiculous recruitment policy.

My shin kicking wasn't too bad I suppose - I'll live!

I do hope your wife hasn't left you awful jobs today like food shopping or cleaning the bathrooms.

I wish you well in your future success with your business.

I don't think I am who you think I am as I am confused by the headmaster comment??!!

However if there is a job going then I'm def interested - even as a headmaster. Can you shed any further light on the post?

You can email me direct at - jobapplicationsfor/poorsoul-solddownriverbyjoneswithnopaddle@leftwithtowrycrocs.com (long email I know but quite fitting don't you think?)

Anyway am I even a little remotely funny today? I was very hurt you didn't find me funny and suggested my pal EM give me counselling - she's my drinking moonshine cyber buddy!

Now that is an interesting concept, how bad are the hangovers?

No I'm not from Bracknell. I have been to the place but not for many years, last time was a flying visit about five years ago. So no, not been blamed for lack of snow clearing. We do own a snow-blower but somehow I doubt it would fit in the overhead bin.

Shin kicking? Ouch!

Somewhat off subject, but what the hell.

I have decided to leave the EJ/TL ship. I have met with a number of the TL people and gone through the initial training. The people I met were really helpful and excellent at their job, although I did find them to be very corporate. As for the senior management, my exposure to them has left me feeling some of the "bullyboy tactics" comments are probably correct, and the constant preaching that the TL way is the only way, borders on arrogance.

However, I feel some of the criticism the company has received has an understandable element of emotional taint.

TL have a reasonable portfolio solution (certainly better than some make out). However, they do give the impression it is something almost unique. Actually there are a number of fund options that use a similar "optimising" system. These can be accessed and used by IFAs in conjunction with other suitable solutions to provide clients with the best possible independent whole of market advice. One of the downsides of TL is that they do really offer anything outside their own funds - other than the odd token investments, where demanded by the client.

My concern is more to do with the fact the TL business model (and the vast majority of its income) is generated via their in-house portfolio offering. This means there is pressure on the adviser to move clients into these funds, and advisers are targeted accordingly. If an alternative solution appeared on the market that demonstrated itself as a better client solution, would TL move their clients into it? The answer of course is no, because the TL business model would collapse. I would therefore ask the question "If, as a result of its business model, a company was unable to offer the best available solutions at any specific time for their clients, are they really independent whole of market". The answer I came up with was "no".

But what of the alternatives? I have to smile to myself when so many advisers that have been vocal in the criticism of TL have moved to St James Place. If I was left with the option of one or the other I have to say I feel TL is the better option for clients.

I have gone down the route of a truly independent whole of market adviser like many other ex EJs. I aim to continue offering my clients excellent service and advice. I will be able to access the full market and I will not be pressured to use any in-house solution.

I wish my ex colleagues (advisers and support staff) well for the future. For those at Towry Law I think there are opportunities for the right people. For those who were not offered positions, or have left, I would advise putting the anger behind you and look forward to the new opportunities that will definitely come your way.

Should of course read "One of the downsides is they do NOT really offer anything outside their own funds.

Don't know if your comment was aimed at me. But if it was, well done on spotting my identity. If I'm not mistaken, I'll probably find you at the Command Post! By the way, wouldn't mind head role and 13 weeks a yr hold ( not to mention snowed in days!!).

Congratulations my ex EJ/TL colleague! You speak a lot of sense and I hope I won't be far behind you. There will no doubt be few of the old guard left soon, but will the last person to leave pls remember to turn out the light. What a sad end to a great opportunity, but as you say there is life beyond EJ....

What a true gentleman/lady you are - you speak so much honesty and sense regarding the ej/tl model, proposition and client relations.

If our paths haven't crossed at ej or tl now I sincerely hope they do in the future. You are clearly an intellegent excellent advisor and I wish you every success away from this sorry mess.

I like you and other colleagues hopefully won't be there for much longer.

For once someone has brought out my serious professional side on this blog - and no comedy from me this evening.

Out of interest what is the teacher/headmaster thing about exactly - fill me in pls??

Well i actually agree with most of your comments and i truly am sorry that you joined TL and now want to leave - but you never really know what an organisation is like until you are there - you may read literature, look at a website, talk loads of people and form an opinion, but not until you are living and breathing it do you truly know and understand.

Which is why i would challenge why you think TL is better for clients than SJP. I worked at "old" Towry Law, New Towry Law and now i am at SJP. So i would suggest that having worked within all 3 environments, with many clients being on the journey with me, perhaps me and my clients are better positioned to offer an opinion as to which is better for them ? And yes they are MY clients - but that is their decision !

At SJP my clients are paying less in Annual Management Charges, no hourly fees/retainers, investment performance has been better that the TL portfolio they were in (albeit over the shorter term, caveat emptor and all that) and they like to continue dealing with me.

And i'm as happy as a pig in the proverbial. I set my own diary, i work from home more so spend more time with the family, i am much less stressed and enjoying a better income than i ever did at TL.

So who are the losers here ? What does irritate me is when people try to pretend they are something that they are not, ie i do not believe that TL should be classed as independent as they only recommend their own Broker Funds.

At SJP we have always maintained that we are "best of breed" and believe that quality managers are what is needed to bring in superior returns. And thats what we do. After all, you don't win the Daily Telegraph Wealth Manager of the Year in 2007 and 2008, and the FT/Investors Chronicle Wealth Manager of the year in 2008 and 2009 if you arn't at the top of your game.

I was always brainwashed through my IFA days that to be good, succesful and profitable, and for your clients to remain with you, you needed to have an IFA tag. Well i now know that is nonsense.

What you need is honesty; integrity; a good work ethic; trustworthiness; a proposition that delivers; a first class client servicing proposition - and then everyone is happy.

Like i say, you may think you know but unless youve lived it you don't. When i was 9 and my dog had his knackers chopped off, i felt for him but only he really new what it was like..........

and no, i'm not an illiterate toad, i have a wireless keyboard which keeps missing letters out which is why the spelling mistakes. Luckily my PA is not so advanced and has a wired set-up !

I've heard a lot of good re SJP and agree with you when you say it's better than TL. Mind you, it would be difficult not to be.

My main concerns re TL are:

1. Lack of communication

2. Obsession with IIM portfolio meaning they are not true IFAs

3. how easy it will be for TL to dispense of us FAs once we have transferred in all our client's assets

4. Arrogant management

5. Broken promises over and over

I could go on, but this will explain why there will be so few EJ (with morales) left after 6 mths.

what you are saying, is that based upon your personal experience you feel that they are;

uncommunacative, self-obsessed, inhumane, arrogant deceivers?

but what are the company soundbite motto's again...?

Thank you for your feedback, it is appreciated. It seems I inadvertently started up the SJP discussion again, which was not my intention. However, I would suggest to ex TL'er that people can form very valid opinions of a client investment proposition without necessarily working for a company -business people (and fund managers) do it everyday. I do agree that company culture is better experienced from the inside, but my comment was not based on culture. I do not intend to get into an in depth technical and cost analysis debate (though I am more than capable of doing so).

I have no axe to grind with SJP and I was offering my own unbiased opinion (not being connected to either company now), but I accept that doesn't mean I am right - it is only my opinion. Hopefully we can all agree that both TL and SJP and their advisers have a greater incentive to sell their own product. That makes me feel uneasy.

On a wider note, I think we should all be adult enough to be honest with ourselves and about the companies we work for (whoever they may be) when we make comments about other companies. Believing everything is right in our own garden is dangerous and can be perceived as somewhat blinkered and not forward thinking.

I started my job search with a totally open mind. I was offered positions with TL, SJP and many others and I did plenty of research. I took a route that felt right for me and I believed gave me the best options for my clients.

We all have our reasons for taking a particular course. I agree the key to a good adviser is honesty, integrity, respect, hard work, and doing what is right and fair for the client within the framework he or she has to work with, whether that be TL, SJP or a traditional Independent. I would wish any adviser who possesses these traits good luck wherever they are.

FAO ALL,

As ive said, there is another world.

If you're good, I'd love to have you working with us !!

The Saturday Times made interesting reading; in the money section, no?

A bit fuller detail in the Times online version, but maybe pause for thought...or not?

Come gather 'round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You'll be drenched to the bone.

If your time to you

Is worth savin'

Then you better start swimmin'

Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'.

When I heard TL were buying EJ I instantly started looking for other fa vacancies, like I'm sure alot of now redundant unemplyed exEJ's wish they had. I was put in the 'at risk' category, but had no intention of joining TL. I have been in a similar situation before & so could see how this was going to end...!

I was amused at how TL made apparently 90 people redundant BEFORE offering them the option to apply for a role at TL, assuming most of the 'at risk' people would jump at a job offer at TL, then seemed suprised when most of the 'at risk' people as well as the people who were initially offered jobs did not accept the offers. They now apparently only have 150 exEJ that have accepted a job at TL, when they predicted much higher.

I was made redundant on 23rd Dec, after being bombarded with phone calls from TL offering job interviews which I refused, & have received a redundancy pay out which is actually less than the people who were initially made redundant, as we 'at risk' people were deemed to be 'better off' by being in the company an extra 3 weeks (lucky me)!

EJ was not profitable, but neither is TL if you look at their figures. It looks to me as though they wanted to take as many advisors from EJ as possible merely to increase their client base & I would be very suprised if there are any exEJ left at TL by the end of the year.

Any EJ advisors with any ability & confidence in themselves will have avoided TL at all cost & will I'm sure be very successful. Any exEJ that have accepted a contract with TL for whatever reason I hope you know what you've let yourself in for!

Hopefully there will be updates over the following months & we will hear what has become of this mess!

I personally am glad to have had my training & exams paid for by EJ, built up a decent client base (which I have not tried to take with me but keep calling me to say they want to keep me as their fa, -sorry TL), had a small pay out to tide me over until my first pay with my new employment & avoided selling my soul to TL! Maybe a blessing in disguise? Fingers crossed...

There are likely to be few EJ fas left after 3 months at the longest, and I think you are optimistic to think many will last 12 months. Not only will this happen but BOAs are also leaving after a couple of weeks working for the new outfit. Pressure is being placed on FAs to move assets into TL portfolios, and questions are being asked about how much we can expect to have moved by March. Where is TCF in all this? And whoever thought TL were a good replacement for clients was an ass!! Oh, just remembered, it was that smooth yank who left the country on the first plane out before the s**t hit the fan!!!

Having left EJ when the majority went (Dec pay day), I have been watching the developments with interest. There were some EJ brokers that were definately not joining TL (until they saw the salary offer) and some that were definately staying (again, until they saw the salary offer). It has been an eye opener seeing who eventually stayed.

I have been informed now by 3 of the people who decided to stay that the "screws are tightening". They have starting having the pressure applied to persuade the clients to move perfectly good EJ portfolios into the elusive IIM with TL. I have also been told that these guys have to see 12/15 fee paying client appointments a week (as well as study for thier advanced/chartered exams.

I'm afraid that the guys who were struggling at EJ, who were offered the cusion of a salary and stayed to join TL, will very soon be feeling very uncomfortable. The guys who felt that they had "sacrificed" their earnings to help EJ grow and stayed with TL just for the money will now be realising that this was a very shortsighted approach.

It was obvious to many of us that we were being bought by TL just for our AUM, and were to be given meaty bonuses for early success (as correctly stated in the Times).

TL had to go "cap in hand" back to the guys it had originally binned to fill positions that we did not fill. As for the clients, well they never did belong to anyone, but thankfully have loyalty to thier adviser if they were treated well. I have received contact (unsolicited) from all but a handful of my clients and I know that I am not the only one.

As TL kept only a handful of the "big hitters" there is going to be little left for TL and with all the lease breakout payments, they ought to be glad they only paid a £ for EJ!.

Good luck with the floatation Mr Fisher, your going to need it!.

Finally, good luck to all the EJ guys who have left to carry on what we had, and to you poor souls that stayed, "dont let the b******s

drive you down!".

X

I feel it needs saying that some of us stayed on, not because the package was outragously good, not because we were in need of a salary, but because we looked with an open mind at the options for our clients.

Some may question our judgement, as with all of our industry, we all give and have varying opinions on what is best for our clients.

For me, the best route for my clients was for me to stay with T.L., again it is only my opinion, but I can assure you that I studied long and hard, weighed up all options and felt that the ethics, contrary to most comments here, were well placed and in line with how I felt my long term client's would expect to be dealt with.

I have not experienced bullying tactics, I don't have an allegience to the old firm which told us one thing whilst in the back ground were plotting completely the opposite!

There is so much anger toward T.L., and I have to say that from where I sit, you should be angry with the firm that sold "the dream" and then changed from long term views to short term selling opportunities. Also whilst there are inevitably some anamolies in the employment lottery that followed, most of those that didn't get offered, didn't deserve an offer, and we have even had one honest enough to admit it in his comments.

So in summary, good luck to the good guys who came up with a different answer to mine when they did the maths for their clients, and good luck to the guys who stayed hoping that they had made the right choice. To those that didn't deserve a place and went elswhere, only to find time to place bitter comments on here, you'll soon be found out by your new employer and move on again leaving negative comments about them no doubt!!

Glad that you saw fit to stay with TL like you say it was your choice - personally I think its one of the worst things that you could have done for "Your" clients and yourself but you are wrong to say that those who didn't join were not good enough.

Two points spring to mind instantly, firstly some numbers. 220 initial Jobs offered, 90 taken, therefore majority deemed Towry Law were not good enough for them or their clients. Those accepting jobs either made informed choice such as yourself or were new advisers who had had one good month, had been gifted a client bank - are they getting assistance with their targets like the big boys (And Girls) by the way?

The small number will become smaller and you would be wise to understand that as you transfer clients across, you become less useful.

You do seem a bit binkered to be honest, I think only about 100 people were made redundant and I know of at least twenty who asked for it after being offered a job so you're off target with your thinking, that means that over 200 walked away rather than were pushed. The newer recruits are not proven advisers but of course Towry Law will charge clients top dollar for their services, who is losing out there?

Secondly the other point is that a client proposition that ends in the same advice every time irrespective of client circumstances is not client friendly nor is it independant advice - thats why people walked away. If you go into HSBC and see a HSBC adviser, he tells you he will only talk to you about HSBC products because thats all he is allowed to do. If you deal with Towry Law (Real client experiences here) they say they can offer advice from the whole marketplace but say that their fund is the best for the client - newsflash - its not the best discretionary managed fund by a long shot, it is the most profitable for your company though - any connection as to why thats what you are targetted on?Also on the subject any thoughts on why fund performance is not published, you seem quite indoctrinated now so give us your best Shane Warne!

I think you missed a few points here, firstly, you do the maths, you look form your clients perspective and your own, and it is either yeah or nay. just because you see people coming up with a different answer, does not mean that you definitely got the sums wrong.

Even if, many of my colleagues chose different route, does not make them right and me wrong. Following the crowd may suit some, but some of us had the strength and resolve to take on challenges which quite honestly some people would not do.

And yes, some people truly did not deserve a job, they did not work hard at Jones and will be found out wherever they go.

If you think that performance of a portfolio is all that matters and looking at that as the best way to secure peace of mind for clients, then you are truly batting form the wrong crease, watch out for the googly !!!