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Former PFS chief Goddard sets out corporate chartered vision

by Michelle Abrego on Feb 06, 2014 at 11:03

Former PFS chief Goddard sets out corporate chartered vision

Former Personal Finance Society chief executive Fay Goddard and ex-Aegon head of industry development Peter Williams have called for the Chartered Insurance Institute (CII) to ramp up its criteria for corporate chartered financial planner status.

The professional body opened its consultation on the criteria for corporate chartered status in November 2013 in an effort to ensure the chartered brand remains relevant and robust.

In response to the consultation, Williams and Goddard (pictured) said the CII should focus more on the culture and ‘mode of operation’ within a firm, than the number of individual chartered financial planners ‘as all employees of a firm benefit from the title and are therefore collectively responsible’.

The CII proposed that chartered individuals in a corporate chartered firm are prominent in the advice process through one or more of the following means:

  • at least 50% of those providing advice are chartered individuals;
  • a chartered individual triages all new customers;
  • a chartered individual signs off all advice before it is issued;
  • should they request it, all customers have access to a chartered financial planner
  • an appropriate professional development programme for staff

Through their consultancy Williams Goddard Consulting (WGC), the pair said that firms should show they have a ‘clear pathway’ to allow all its advisers to become chartered.

They said: ‘To demonstrate commitment, chartered firms should provide at least one of the following: financial support for study materials and/or exam fees, study leave, financial or other relevant rewards for attainment of qualifications.’

To ensure good conduct is embedded through compliance, systems and controls, they suggested the use of Standards International’s BS8577 or an alternative way of evidencing these policies since it’s a part of the business many just ‘pay lip service to’.

WGC believe that making at least 50% of advisers chartered should be a longer term objective as it could be a barrier to entry and ‘seriously disadvantage’ larger firms.

It could also reduce the existing number of chartered firms substantially, even if given a reasonable time to comply.

The pair proposed that corporate Chartered status could be set on a three year rolling basis, so a firm who gains the award in 2014 with 10% of advisers chartered would need 20% by the end of 2017 and 30% by 2020 and so on.

They also suggested that fees should be discounted where a high percentage of the directors and individual advisers are chartered as an incentive, and in recognition of the higher individual membership fees paid by chartered members.

47 comments so far. Why not have your say?

Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 11:43

A cyncal person might view Mr Williams and Ms Goddards - " review " as being a further nail in the " retails distribution review ", where the requirement of Corporate Chartered status - would reduce the numbers of good advisers - to having speaialised qualifications for example Accountants charterd and Certified - to restrict this market- to increase the charges to employers for the benefit of accountants - who see themselves as " gate keepers ", or should that be gate sweepers ? - rather than employers and their employees or the beneficiaries of pensions schemes . . .in the" peasants pensions" . . . .. known as auto enrolment. Have you been forced into a pension ? You could lose out on your benefits entitlement . . .then who would you sue ? Employer or Government ?

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 12:10

@Ian Lees

Not for the first time, you have clearly misunderstood (too big a remove this time to bring in Scottish Widows, for which we should be grateful, I guess).

There clearly is a need to raise the bar, once granted Corporate Chartered status. There is still not enough understanding within the wider public about what this means and why they might be better served seeking advice from an accredited firm (opens floodgates).

It is not as a result of RDR at all but a consultation from CII/PFS, the professional body. We should always test ourselves against other professional bodies and their member firms: clearly this should be an evolution as we are still some way behind lawyers, accountants, doctors and others.

There needs to be a swell of agreement from accredited firms that constant improvement in stages will bring us to that aspirational point albeit that a long journey lies ahead. Can't fault CII/PFS for the manner in which this is being managed and the input of two of our best is valuable. Other adviser firms can remain unaffected, if they so wish, and can continue with the minimum to remain regulated.

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Susan Hill

Feb 06, 2014 at 12:29

I would like to know how the CII propose to treat sole traders. I am reluctant to apply for corporate status and pay the same annual fees as a much larger firm, where few are actually chartered, until this has been resolved. I feel not considered and disadvantaged because I choose to run my firm as a sole trader.

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Gordon Hay

Feb 06, 2014 at 12:40

Surely the main question to be asked here is "What benefit Chartered Status actually delivers to the adviser market ?"

We were formerly Chartered but let it lapse because, for the £500 fee, we received zero support and benefit from the CII and it made no apparent difference to our business other than another certificate on the well.

Yet again, our leaders in the CII are navel gazing, spending time and money on restructuring their systems without showing any tangible benefit to the end user.

Corporate Chartered status is something we would be keen to support again but see no benefit in it at this present time.

And that is from a Fellow of the CII

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 12:42

CII needs to address this as there are tiered bands within other professional bodies. Larger firms might argue of course, that they are already being charged higher levels for compulsory CII membership of all client-facing advisers and Chartered equivalent of 50% of the CF1s.

My other point seems to apply here that there is little perceived benefit of applying for the Chartered label if the public does not understand the distinction.

CII is conflicted here as it cannot be seen to promote Chartered to the general public as most of its fees come from Diploma-qualified members and students.

I would add that CII needs to show more commitment to this sector if it wants to raise the bar for member firms. Deal?

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John Frink

Feb 06, 2014 at 13:01

@Susan Hill

You can't get 'corporate' chartered status for a SOLE TRADER...

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 13:24

There are no longer any ( or very few ) Sole Traders ! The sole traders have gone . . . fishing ! Good Cod they've found another Plaice . . . . .

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 13:47

@Cromswell Brian .. .you might have missed .. .LloydsTSB own Scottish Widows and flog their products and renamed CMG and St Andrews Life - as being SW products by the Tied Agents of Lloyds TSB ( now identified as good bank and bad bank Lloyds and Edinburgh based TSB . . . ( and Santander are getting clients into the branches to force their restricted services by unauthorised sales people - into products and services of these restricted advisers and consultants. You might have missed a Fellow of the CII refusing to pay CII membership as it offers no service. Put simply having a title eg Bank Manager means absolutely nothing . . .what counts is his or her ability to conclude the simplest of operations - or assist clients. Only Independent traders - whether individuals as sole traders or under a Ltd company - have the ability to advise and then to implement. You cannot even buy a car now without the administrator going off to see his " manager ", to finalise his negotiations - the Manager is a redundant desk driven bean counter - rather than a facilitator os services. . . .and banks and insurance companies are conducting the same warfare on consumers - NO WONDER THEY ARE BUYING ON THE INTERNET - they remove the nutters in branches. With regard to corporate status - how many people do you think will wish to visit an accountancy firm . . .for advice ? There will be reduced numbers - IE advice by the few for the few - and the 80% of people will have no access to advice - from either a sole trader or a Business Corporate . . . . . . RDR the problem is in the title Retail "Distribution " . . .changing the way products and services are provided . . .and the sponsors need to buy their business through the Government eg Auto Enrolment . . .making advice so much more expensive . . . .and the TAxes on Advisers so much higher . . . .to fund an MP or lobbyist . . .to the detriment of most of the population of the UK . . . .Conservative MP's . . . . .attacking the vulnerable , the elderly and the lower classes . . .

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silver

Feb 06, 2014 at 14:07

Mmmmmm do chartered advisers have access to different products than those not chartered,NO....does it mean better advice, NO

Have I met a client who wants chartered NO

Errrr what a further watse of time and money

I rest my case. M'lud

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 14:18

Mmmmm do Chartered Advisers focus on products - or advice? Are Chartered Advisers better qualified? Are they obliged to be more transparent as a result of their ethics? Have I met a client, who - when the differences are explained - wants Chartered? Have a I met with other professional advisers, who value the Chartered label and are more inclined to support? Does it mean cheaper PI as insurers recognise the value?

The jury is out about the additional cost but the case for the prosecution needs more work.

M'lud.

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Ben DeToy

Feb 06, 2014 at 14:45

I have yet to meet a Chartered Financial Planner whom gives better quality advice or has better ethics as a result of chartered status. I have met several with worse technical knowledge than they should have. I suppose that is because the ability to pass an exam proves the ability and motivation to pass an exam.

It reminds me of the old joke about pilots:

"How do you know there is a Chartered Financial Planner in the room"?

"Don't worry, they'll tell you".

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 14:57

I guess opinion will be divided between who is - and who isn't. We can all point to personal experiences but that does not prove the point either way; and I don't think that anyone is taking the moral high ground about who is the better in delivering client advice.

Using your pilot analogy, Ben, I would hope that the person flying my plane is a qualified pilot; qualified as much as possible.

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Ben DeToy

Feb 06, 2014 at 15:28

I agree with you entirely on that basis Cromwellsbrain.

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Susan Hill

Feb 06, 2014 at 15:34

A pilot is not authorised to fly an aircraft unless he/she is fully qualified to a standard set by his/her authorising civil aviation or military organisation and undertakes rigorous continuous assessment. You don't have to 'hope', you know the person at the controls is qualified. That's' why chartered is so important, it sets out the individual person has reached a particular standard of qualification. How they (the pilot) handles the controls is another matter, but you know they can.

But this article is about how the CII awards corporate chartered status, PLC Ltd and LLP. If you award a flying license to an airline and anyone could use it whether or not they had qualified you really would have to 'hope'.

I see no reason why as a sole trader I am excluded from some form of corporate status. I may be a sole trader but I do not work alone. I employ people in my business the same as a Ltd company. Sole trader is my relationship with the HMRC. The FCA give me a firm reference number, so they at least recognise my trading status as a firm.

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 15:46

@Susan Hill . . put simply you are being discriminated against. It is Insuracne by the few for the few. Reducing numbers - means the CII and PFS can charge more money for " training " ie passing funds to taxbriefs to publish their " publications ", for extraordinarily high costs and charges - book church halls and have " exam ", events - and effectively keep insurance as a " Closed Community " by the few for the few. Fortunately, Insurance companies are not now NO LONGER REQUIRED. For further info contact Paul Arinson who demonstrates Financial Planning - taking insurance companies out of the Pure Financial Planning. Wrap accounts have replaced poor quality insurance companies and their stingy, hostile and inefficient services. Their requirement to be dishonest control freaks - means clients can get much better service elsewhere - better returns and great service.

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 16:06

@Crom swell Brian .. .There is no doubt Chartered Advisers are better qualified. They have passed the educational qualifications. This means they have demonstrated more knowledge.

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silver

Feb 06, 2014 at 16:19

Pass an exam and demonstrate better knowledge

A certificate stating you can answer a set of questions on a specified ate to an agreed standard

Nothing states you can retain that knowledge for the long term and nothing states you have a greater ability to apply the knowledge

I'm sure there are many without the exam and certificate who can demonstrate more knowledge and application skills that a chartered adviser.

To say they are any less qualified would be wrong

I have to say I agree the CII and the other lot operate a closed shop,

Chartered yawn yawn yawn,i wouldn't put it on my door even if I was

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 16:44

@ silver

Please see my earlier reply about who is 'better'; your arguments are somewhat dated although I assume you apply the same mantra to other areas: many unqualified pilots who can fly planes as well as qualified pilots (yes, I know); many book-keepers who understand tax better than chartered accountants; many legal assistants who know the law better than Solicitors etc.

Ian Lees grasped that higher qualifications means more qualified - not 'wrong'. And I just don't get the 'closed shop' bit; anyone can be Chartered and it is not just about exams.

There clearly is an issue with sole traders, as Susan highlighted and CII need to resolve this.

Oh, and it was obvious some time ago that you are not Chartered but thanks for clarifying.

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 16:46

@sliver . . . .at least one of the first things you complete on an exam paper is you WRITE your name ! then your knowledge which you have gleaned is used to identify and write down your answers - the 11 plus O levels A levels are also demonstrated in this way - it is simple it is efficient it demonstrates that one has the knowledge . . . often without using it the knowledge disappears or gets muddled or is gone . . .and it appears it is those who cannot pass the entrance exam who appear to be " critical " of exams and critical of learning the technical bit . . . . .

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Ian Lees

Feb 06, 2014 at 16:56

@Cromswell Brain . . .Under Con servative party policy Sole Traders are being outlawed. There is clearly no room for small businesses e.g Pubs, Market Stall Holders, garage services - everything is being driven into ONE big supermarket . . .to be controlled by the freak control merchants in Parliament - rather than putting in place - proper operations to allow small businesses to exist or thrive. The reason is I believe MP's can charge business for lobbying , or get sponsorship for their party e.g BT Ian Livingstone adviser to Mr Cameron - and with such a poor infrastructure . . .and failure to provide reasonable or working Broad band facilities to so many. However as a monopoly BT can do anything they wish as they are " advisers " to the government - after sky and Rebecca and her cronies turned sour on Mr Cameron . . .LOL

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:19

@ Ian Lees

Now, that's not true, is it. Shed D tax payers are finally being tested on a range of previously accepted principles (notably partners' correlation between contribution and distribution!).

No great conspiracy here and it is being led by HMRC. Sole traders, LLPs and Partnerships will continue.

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:19

Sched D! Oops....

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silver

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:21

Indeed you are right,chartered is not for me,each to their own. The pilot analogy is perfect as is the one re the chartered adviser in the room will always let you know

I've no beef with people who wish to take exams and fill their heads with knowledge,thats upto them. For me attaining further exams is a waste of my life and time,it will cost far more than I will see in returns and I'm here to make money not sit exams

As I say each to their own but in my experience chartered is a certificate that doesn't mean a great deal

I do enjoy the banter on this site now and again,I don't have the time most of you appear to haveas I'm busy with my business

Silver

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Jimmyvet

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:33

Silver Your comments say everything we need to know about you.....you!! How can having more knowledge and being able to share that with your clients to achieve a better outcome not be a positive step....you are very misguided. The better outcome for your clients will drive more better clients to you from your clients and from other professionals and therefore will drive greater profitability.........you sound like a 1990s dinosaur who really should have retrained as bin man or similar!!

BTW I have not met any Chartered Financial Planners who tell me they are Chartered generally I can tell by just listening to them or listening to people like you Silver who quite clearly are not!

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David Ross

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:38

The CII is giving advisers the opportunity to share their views on what being a Chartered firm should mean. If you have any constructive views then we would be delighted to hear them. They can be sent to cctreview@cii.co.uk. Can I respectively ask that any contributions focus on the standards that might be expected of a Chartered Financial Planning firm going forward rather than what you don't like about the current scheme.

As far being a Chartered individual I would point out that being a Chartered practitioner is, much like other professions, not just about having passed an exam. A Chartered Financial Planner must have five years or more relevant experience, commit to a programme of continuous professional development, adhere to a code of ethics and pass the Advanced Diploma (QCF Level 6). All of these things are monitored and if any obligation is not met in full then the status can (and is) taken away.

Susie - your comments on sole trading are duly noted. I am seeking further clarification on a specific point and will respond to you in due course.

David Ross

CII

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Jimmyvet

Feb 06, 2014 at 17:46

Thanks for the above David it just frustrates me so much when individuals who clearly feel they have 'made it' and will always do the absolute minimum because they care more about themselves than their clients. They then rubbish the many thousands of advisers who realise that focussed CPD and improving your knowledge can only, in most cases, have a better outcome for clients. I would urge all advisers based on my personal experience that clients, professional partners and in the main most 'professional' advisers do understand and value the Chartered Status.

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silver

Feb 06, 2014 at 18:01

Ha ha ha,jimmyvet you make me chuckle,your comment justt about sums you up,what a twerp you are.

Listen up...I'm a salemanwho sells advice in return for fees,now you are going to tell me you work for nothing and you don't sell

Ha ha ha still chuckling at your little rant it's quite funny

This is a business and nothing else so don't talk such crap about caring for your clients,you wouldn't work for them for nothing like you wouldn't go to work for nothing

What a twerp

And for your information I am allowed to express my opinion,if it differs from yours so what,is there a problem with that

You go follow your herd and say what people want to hear...met many of your type in this business

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Jimmyvet

Feb 06, 2014 at 18:33

Silver What a sad person you are I feel so sorry for your 'customers' definitely not clients and more likely 'victims' .............I hoped that RDR had got rid of most of you dinosaurs, sadly not yet , but its only a matter of time.

The best quote ever in any business from Silver:-

This is a business and nothing else so don't talk such crap about caring for your clients'

No Silver like all successful businesses I don't care about my clients!!! Really what a moron you are...Rant over

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silver

Feb 06, 2014 at 18:49

Ha ha ha,how funny a reply

I still have my very first two clients from way back in 98 and I see them every year. I have many happy clients and a growing business.

It's very simple really,revenue equals a profitable business,clients remain with you if you look after them but you have to earn whichever way you look at it

I notice your selected use of paras in your reply,I was referring to you you twerp

You know what you are made to feel ashamed of being successful and building a business in this industry

Anyone successful is usually criticised and accused of not doing the job right and stuck in the dark ages. Twerps like you would accuse us of this which is no different from me making comment on chartered status. Opposite ends of the scale but relevant

Let me make it clear to you, clients get looked after but I don't need to tell everyone

Great laugh this ha ha

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Jimmyvet

Feb 06, 2014 at 22:27

Now Silver I hope you are not back tracking on your earlier ignorant comments, so lets go over it again you said and I quote:

1. This is a business and nothing else so don't talk such crap about caring for your clients.

2. Let me make it clear to you, clients get looked after.

So what is it I am confused, you were ranting that you don't care about clients(victims) and when challenged apparently you do look after clients(victims). You seriously need to take a step back and have a look at yourself and your Ego you are really not as great as you think you are and certainly not as important as you think your are to your clients(victims).

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 07:59

@ Jimmy the helmet

Look here soft lad, go and read my comments again, there is nothing say I don't look after clients, use your chartered brain to read and understand what's written

This is a business and nothing else so don't talk crap about looking after)YOUR clients. This comments refers to your rant. There is nothing to say I don't look after mine. I just don't choose to advertise this all over this forum,in fact it's goes without saying and I wouldn't be successful if I didn't.

I do however run a profitable business first and foremost and this will not change

You have clearly had your head stuck up your ass with a CII text book for far too long to understand what a business is.

I suspect your a wage slave who's never achieved anything but an exam pass, hence your babbling about chartered

Seriously you have a problem with people who don't follow the flow,this site appears that way too. What's the beef if I'm a businessman and not a serial exam taker

You really need to get out there and get a life (I don't mean endless rounds of gold with your chums) you need to live a bit

For me I'll continue to build and earn as much as I can from my business, as for the clients they decide if I look after them because if I don't they go elsewhere

Now twerp get under whatever stone from which you emerged

Work to do now

Silver

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 07:59

@ Jimmy the helmet

Look here soft lad, go and read my comments again, there is nothing say I don't look after clients, use your chartered brain to read and understand what's written

This is a business and nothing else so don't talk crap about looking after)YOUR clients. This comments refers to your rant. There is nothing to say I don't look after mine. I just don't choose to advertise this all over this forum,in fact it's goes without saying and I wouldn't be successful if I didn't.

I do however run a profitable business first and foremost and this will not change

You have clearly had your head stuck up your ass with a CII text book for far too long to understand what a business is.

I suspect your a wage slave who's never achieved anything but an exam pass, hence your babbling about chartered

Seriously you have a problem with people who don't follow the flow,this site appears that way too. What's the beef if I'm a businessman and not a serial exam taker

You really need to get out there and get a life (I don't mean endless rounds of gold with your chums) you need to live a bit

For me I'll continue to build and earn as much as I can from my business, as for the clients they decide if I look after them because if I don't they go elsewhere

Now twerp get under whatever stone from which you emerged

Work to do now

Silver

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 07, 2014 at 08:57

Not very eloquent, @silver.

I suspect that you are not 'enjoying the banter' quite as much as you have made out.

No problem in having an opinion; just try to make it a little more informed and a little less bigoted next time.

Ta ta

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Jimmyvet

Feb 07, 2014 at 08:57

Oh Dear Silver

I think the above response again, sadly, reinforces everything we need to know about you and your victims.................I really do feel for them if only they were fortunate enough to meet a proper advice firm, Chartered or not, who actually cared about them and wanted the best outcome for them ...............and BTW, as before, it is very clear with your aggressive babbling that you are not particularly well qualified or very intelligent so I guess you will never be Chartered but maybe at some point you could be Certified !!!!

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 09:18

Ha ha ha it's just gets funnier

@ jimmy the helmet

Please describe what you mean by the victims and how they have suffered,you may wish to provide some evidence on which you have founded your allegations

Please describe what you man by a proper advice firm,for the benefit of everyone I'm sure we would like to see your take on things

I myself would be most grateful to take your advice on how to run a successful business

Please remember if you wish insult me then you will get it back, I don't really care what you think but don't expect me to ignore your petty insults

Anyway I'll await the helmets take on what a proper advice firm is and how to run a business

Today please and I'm sure veryone would like to understand your take on thing

Silver

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Jimmyvet

Feb 07, 2014 at 09:28

@Cromwellsbrain You are right poor Silver has made himself look rather foolish and is now ranting like a 7 year old in the play ground!

On a serious note I do hope the likes of Silver maybe do change the way they think and put their clients first, because as per my initial response, the better outcomes for your clients will lead to a better more profitable business and also raise the general perception about Financial Advice in the UK in a positive manner, here's for hoping!!

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 09:41

Jimboy

Ha ha ha, you are so funny and you are obviously short of attention, like a little boy with an attention disorder,sadly this is the only place anyone will listen to you

Anyway I'm still waiting to read your business advice and how to run a successful IFA

Please answer the earlier post, or are to afraid to back up your wild claims

Come on big shot lets hear your evidence about victims. Your keyboard warrior skills now deserting you

You made the statement in public so now back it up,come on we are waiting

Silver

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 07, 2014 at 10:57

@silver

Sounds to me like you need to pay for formal consultancy for your business as you are being so vocal about wanting free advice from Jimmyvet.

I don't want to pre-empt Jimmyvet's response but, unless he feels that silver should be a pro bono case, he should take some money on account from silver..... Likely recovery of costs can be quite an issue when advising smaller businesses.

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 11:21

Ha ha very good CB

I would be happy to pay for advice,indeed I do,i pay for business advice regularly at my annual reviews. How else would I get to where I am

Being Jim Bob seems so intent on dishing out advice and making unsubstantiated claims he should back them up with fact, I'm still waiting.

Recovery costs can be an issue with both small and large business,indeed I deal with worldwide multi nationals myself, you would be surprised at the size of business I deal with and it's obvious from your lack of intelligence you are unable to identify someone who is quite good at what he does,instead you think because I have an aversion to constant exams I'm in the dark ages,that just shows your arrogance and ignorance. You just carry on following the herd and saying what people want to hear because you will do as you always did and get what you always got. As you can see I don't follow the herd and I challenge things.

I'm not quiet sure how got here anyway being don't have a problem with others having exams it's just I don't wish to do them anymore. I think it must have been the twisted words and insults that came form Jim bob that inflamed this.

I invest in my staff and fund their exams and training,I invest in graduate trainees and am funding their development as they are the future of my firm. Is this something you do personally? That may have come as a surprise to you but you never even tried to understand me you just made a judgement,how sad is that

It is quite funny because you are typical IFA stereotype and the reason I don't mix with other IFA

Please if you are going to issue insults at least make them a bit more interesting

This is proving rather good fun on a friday whilst enjoying my coffee

Silver

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Jimmyvet

Feb 07, 2014 at 13:30

@Cromwellsbrain My experience in the main with a chartered firm and status has been a positive one. Certainly most regional and also good quality local law firms we deal with, have increased the number of clients they refer to us substantially since 2012 and the quality of the clients and the complexity of the clients needs has also grown in during this period. Maybe this could be down to less advisers or maybe it could be down to them recognising that they need to work with other 'professional' firms to achieve the best outcome for their clients.

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 13:44

Jim bob I'm still waiting for your justification in relation to clients being victims,please enlighten me as to how you reach this conclusion and on what you have based your assumptions

I assume being highly qualified by certificate you understand the consequences of going to print with your wild accusations. You did and I quote use the word Victim when referring to my clients

Please don't turn yellow when it's getting interesting

Silver

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 07, 2014 at 13:47

@silver

'Lack of intelligence', 'ignorance', 'arrogance', 'typical IFA stereotype', 'following the herd'.... Please have a read through my earlier posts as I can't see that I have issued any insults but I seem to have them back from you in spades. Doesn't reflect too well on you, I am afraid.

Your question about how we got here can be answered by looking at your initial posts in which you deride anyone for seeking to improve themselves - and suggest that the creeping professionalism that good firms are trying to adopt is a waste of time. Jimmyvet and I - and many, many others - have aspirations to raise the bar for financial planners and being Chartered is just one of those steps along the journey. Our disparate industry is not even close to achieving this aim as too many firms are dragging down reputation through poor practices and high pressure sales. Whilst this happens, public perception will not change.

Remarkably, from your description, it seems that our businesses are more similar than they are different. So, yes, we do (re staff and multi-nationals) and my prior observations (not judgements) were based on your rants, rather than on a knowledge of you or your business - as I have none.

Just about to sit down to a coffee myself and will await the next instalment of vitriol...

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 14:28

@ Jim Bob and Cromwell

For the record I made no rants nor did I insult anyone

Read back through the post an you will see mr Professional called me a dinosaur and intimated I should re train as a bin man

So the twerp got back what he dished out. Maybe you would care to read the posts and get your facts correct

Next post calls me a moron a dinosaur and refers to my clients as victims,the next post calls me sad and you say the same old things again an again

So you professionals at the top with your pieces of worthless paper have clearly shown what uneducated Twerps you really are,the posts show this quite clearly

I never insulted anyone until the vitriol came in my direction from Jim Bob

You seem to think that if IFAs don't follow what your interpretation of the future is then they are dinosaurs,many IFAs don't want chartered and good on them

Now yellow Jimmy Vet let's here your answers to my post or are you running scared....don't be a coward,you call clients victims so come on let's see your justification and evidence

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Cromwellsbrain

Feb 07, 2014 at 15:02

Jeez, this is taking its toll.

For the record: yes you did. Incontrovertible. Read your posts again. Despite your grammar and spelling I am pretty sure that we can decipher to understand well enough.

Someone else insults you, silver, so everyone gets vitriol thrown at them? You might want to be a bit more discerning for fear of making broad generalisations....

Can I suggest, Jimmyvet, that we call this to an end? Let @silver believe we are 'uneducated twerps with worthless bits of paper' and we can hold on to our opinions on silver from his fascinating use of the English language.

Have a good weekend and hope for decent weather in Murrayfield!

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silver

Feb 07, 2014 at 15:27

Apologies for the text but I'm writing via my BlackBerry which I spend my life on,indeed no argument the text may not be the best but you understand the basis of what fits and its relevance to you

I don't think everyone got vitriol thrown at them really,just you who insulted me. I think any further mail should be aimed at Jim Bob,hes the clever one with words and insults

Murray field...I take it that's Rugby or something? I'm sure I'll enjoy my weekend as I'm flying out of the country in the morning

Please remember that the single person who started this was Jimmy Vet, I simply fought my corner and stood up for what I personally believe

So enjoy the wind and the rain and rugby if that's what's on

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Jimmyvet

Feb 07, 2014 at 15:35

Lets agree to disagree silver however forums are not a good place to have a discussion with passionate views and whilst I dont agree and took offence to your posts it is quite clear you are passionate I just hope you show the same level of passion with your clients signing out both have a good weekend

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Ben DeToy

Feb 11, 2014 at 21:33

I am not Chartered.

The standard of my advice is very high. Other advisers - even ones that are Chartered - seek my advice.

I strive to be, above all, ethical. Being ethical is about far more than a title. It is about giving the best advice in the best possible way when it is needed by the client.

That may mean, for example, piecing together an advice process from a Chartered Financial Planner where a mistake in paper work meant everything was wrong from day on. There isn't an exam in spotting clerical errors. Yet.

It may mean, for example, understanding business taxation and contract law.

It may mean, for example, referring to a trusted professional in another field - and "holding the clients hand" throughout that process.

It is about (and I do not like to use this word as it has been hijacked by so many who use it as another meaningless label) a holistic approach.

I am certain I get things wrong sometimes, but when I do I learn from it and, if a client is at the receiving end of something that is less than the best, then I try my best to correct it.

I have never *ever* said "but I have x exam" or "because I am qualified to y level". These are all meaningless labels and sales tools.

The Chartered label is, in my mind, akin to being a "Vice President" or "Senior Manager".

None of them pass the "so what" test.

Let your advice speak for you, not your label.

In the meantime, the CII or PFS of whichever self appointed keeper of the keys anoint the chosen few whom have not proved in any way their ability to provide better advice.

Advice in the real world often requires genuine creativity and, in my experience, the ability to devote time and energy to passing exams that are needed by few and understood by fewer [clients], is not an indicator of the ability to apply the "knowledge" acquired in a real environment.

Some of the cases where I have made the biggest difference have been where I have not only applied knowledge not covered in the CII's syllabus, but where this has been combined with the detailed knowledge of another professional.

In my experience, the most "dangerous" adviser is the adviser that thinks they know it all. That attribute seems to be distributed fairly evenly between all levels of qualification. Indeed, a cynic might propose that the "know it all" is more likely to be at one end of the spectrum than the other...

Whilst the labels are applied and proclamations made, I will be thoroughly researching each client case, saying "I don't know" when I don't and getting on with making sure my clients not only receive good advice, but are hopefully protected against those others who seek to relieve them of their cash for another bottle of their brand of snake oil.

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