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FSA survey shows advice sector decimated in run-up to RDR

by Michelle Abrego on Feb 14, 2013 at 13:07

FSA survey shows advice sector decimated in run-up to RDR

A Financial Services Authority (FSA) surveys has suggested that one in 10 advisers left financial services in the 12 months to the summer of 2012, ahead of the retail distribution review (RDR) deadline.

Its survey was conducted on a sample of 1,438 advisers, of which 11.5% had left the industry since the summer of 2011. Extrapolating from the figures, the survey suggests about 36,000 advisers were left in financial services over the period, 58% of whom were IFAs and 19% bank advisers.

The FSA carried out research in the summer of 2012. Participating advisers who were not fully qualified and who were willing to be contacted were resurveyed in early December about their progress on qualifications.  

As of December 2012, 93% of advisers held at least a level four diploma, 2% were awaiting results on their final paper and 2% were still studying.

The FSA found that only 3% of advisers were not going to take the appropriate qualifications It warned that these advisers should have stopped advising on 31 December 2012 until they have attained a level four diploma.

In November the FSA said that it expected 94% of advisers to attain their qualifications before the RDR deadline and that 86% had a relevant qualification.  

The FSA said it would be putting out a more detailed report shortly and would be carrying out a further study on professionalism in the summer of 2013. It also aims to conduct other studies to track adviser behaviour and attitudes on other aspects of the RDR or related topics in the future.  

66 comments so far. Why not have your say?

Jonathan Kirby

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:14

Not sure how these percentages add up.

If 36,000 have left and 58% were IFAs then that means 20,880 have left so who is the other one left out there beside me?

That aside, this is a disaster which I and many others predicted but the FSA said would not happen.

Anybody still think Hector should keep his knighthood?

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Barman

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:31

if 1 in 10 have left and this represents 36,000 advisers then there must have been 360,000 advisers last year?

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Bob Donaldson

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:37

Surely the FSA have the accurate figures by now following the questionairre they did of advisors recently.

FSA - How about releasing the accurate information please out of interest for the financial services industry.

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Nick H

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:41

3600 might make more sense. I wonder what would happen if we made a +/- 1000% error in our work ?...

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Shane Barr

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:44

Hi Jonathan........I'm still here. I must be the other one !!

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Julian Stevens

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:46

And it will continue..............

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Christopher Mellor

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:50

I have no idea where the maths comes from. I have always been lead to believe that there were about 60,000 R/I's in the industry. In the Summer of 2011 a survey in the pinks said that there were about 42,000 R/I's and that 15% or about 5,000 had said that they would be leaving the industry. That left about 37,000. By September 2012 only 13,000 of those had attained level 4 qualification status. I think the FSA makes it up as they do with most things. They have no idea what destructiion they have caused to the provision of advice to the public. We have one or two clients who won't pay our minimum servicing advice fee and have confirmed that they will no longer be seeking advice and just leaving their investments, protection policies etc '..to just do their own thing..'. Also one or two prospective new clients have also declined to pay asking why isn't such advice for free, '..it was with my other adviser..'. However, in the main within our market niche, fees have continued to go down very well with the clarity and explicitness of the same. As an industry, we adapt, we always do. It's the public, our clients who always lose out.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:51

Oh! Gosh! what a surprise; and shock. If only this could have been forseen by the regulator, surly RDR would have been postponed. Reviewed at least.

Ah well; its done now. Like horsemeat, no sense in crying over cold burgers.

The FCA will do better.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:55

Sadly Julian we are not 'still here'. Fully complient Eleanor and I have had enough of fools not listening whilst also trying to tell those that know better, how to serve the public.

Retirement feels empty but I will fill the void. Cheers mate.

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JM Keynes

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:56

A simple Freedom of Information request to the FSA about numbers on the register in Jan 2012 compared to now ought to suffice We could work the rest out ofr ourselves

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David Burns - NMG

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:57

These numbers are wrong! It should be 36,000 who ARE left not who HAVE left. Around 10,000 have left in the past 3 years of whom the majority are bank advisers not IFAs.

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Phil (ph)

Feb 14, 2013 at 13:59

Sorry Shane, it's me, unless the FSA have got it wrong again.

Perhaps they should stick to the horsemeat scandal.

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David Prior

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:00

@ Terence O'Halloran

Why do you think the FAC will do better? - The same people, doing the same job, at the same desk, with the same ethos, just a huge expense to change the sign over the door and their stationery (and we will incur the same expenses changing our stationery within 6 months to reflect THEIR change of name - more "unintended consequences" of their meddling)

Was it KPMG that predicted we'd be down to 20,000 RI's by 2017 & Standard Life predict this could be the case by end of 2013 - for those that remain, halcyon days, so long as the meddling stops..........

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Christopher Petrie via mobile

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:00

As others have said, it's difficult to comment on statistics that are clearly wrong in this article.

Nevertheless, it seems numbers fell by 10%, and almost all the other 90% passed their exams. Early days, but certainly not the huge exodus some predicted.

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Barman

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:01

I cant honestly believe the FSA would make such a basic mistake with these numbers...? My understanding was there there were around 35,000 advisers last year with approxx 30,000 moving into RDR?

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Des Pondent

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:03

Why did they need to spend cash on a sample survey anyway? They manage the register afterall. Surely it's not rocket science to work who was on the register at a given point and who's still on it now. Simple maths?

So, 36,000 advisers have left the industry - what's an average client bank? 150? That's 5,400,000 clients without an adviser. Fill your boots boys!

and Jonathan.......I'm still here too - trying to work out how much 5,400,000 second class stamps will cost :-)

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Daniel Grote - Citywire

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:11

Apologies everyone, the error in the story has been corrected.

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Payneless

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:17

The regulator knows exactly how many registered individuals there are, they run the register. What about the thousands of jobs lost from the life offices?

I wonder if there are any FSA personnel responsible for the RDR still with the regulator or have they all moved to a welcoming bank.

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Maths Man

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:17

I think that this has been miss reported by Citywire rather than the FSA releasing the figures. I know everyone likes to bash FSA but it appears that there were approx 36,000 Registered Advisers in the summer of 2012 and approx 12% of those dropped out i,e, 4,320 advisers.

Of these 4,320, 58% were IFA's therefore approx 2,506 IFA's left the industry.

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John Smyth 3

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:18

Haven't McCarthy, Turner and Sants done a wonderful job for the banks, building societies and insurance/assurance companies at the expense of the general public.

The decks have been cleared of lots of those awful IFAs who pointed out to members of the public that what the banks were trying to sell them was mostly overpriced or completely the wrong product for them.

Open season has begun on the general public and many more IFAs will leave in the not too distant future as the costs of regulation and compliance escalate and more and more of the general public refuse to pay fees and go DIY or go to those nice direct sales people who proclaim that they do not charge fees but omit to clearly advise them of their excessive charges and poor performances.

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Christopher Petrie via mobile

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:19

Now the article is clearer, we can see IFAs have nearly 2/3 market share. Banks less than 1/5...and that's before Santander!

These figures do suggest the IFA sector is adapting better than other sectors, but no surprise there.

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Mad Eyes

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:20

does that mean less people to pay the fees. OR will the regulator be making redundancies to police a smaller industry ?

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Keith Jayne

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:22

A truly and utterly pointless survey.

However, I'm obviously looking forward to the 'more detailed report' which will presumably look into detail of why the basic mathematics were wrong in the first survey.

Just goes to show that 126% of people at the FSA don't understand percentages.....!!

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fed up with reading crap !!!

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:27

When quality people like Terrence O'Halloran leave the industry sounding totally disillusioned it certainly tells a sorry story !

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John Smyth 3

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:27

@ Christopher Petrie

Your confidence is commendable but I fear time will tell a different story as many IFAs find the costs, responsibilities and liabilities not to be worth the effort.

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Kate Brookes

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:27

'It also aims to conduct other studies to track adviser behaviour ', what the hell does that mean? Will we all be fitted with a radio collar?

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T

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:27

Presumably if the numbers are incorrect it's more likely to be the reporting than the FSA...

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Mad Eyes

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:37

..all a bit early to even look at this!! But hopefully fees going down with the industry being so much smaller and therefore liability has presumably reduced. Especially as all the 'high risk' advisers who couldnt pass the exams are now retired!! You have gotta laugh

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Ian Jenkins

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:39

We have a FSA mortgage visit on the 26th do I leave the industry on the 25th?

Seriously if anyone has had a recent visit I could do with a heads up on what to expect I have read a lot but not managed to find anyone that has got personal experiance number is 01982 812422 /07990634427 Thanks

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Nigel Herrick

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:42

So thats why I cant get Gabriel to balance !! I cant add up properly.

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Man of Kent

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:44

Er, doesn't the article say, "the survey suggests about 36,000 advisers were left in financial services..."? It says they're still here, not that they have left. Most of the comments above suggest the readers have missed out a couple of important words.

I agree much of the maths and some of the conclusions are questionable, but let's discuss what it actually says?

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Chris Miller

Feb 14, 2013 at 14:59

I tried to wade through that mess of statistics. Still no wiser.

However, it did do one thing for me;

it reminded me to put out the dog's dinner.

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Jonathan Kirby

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:02

Man of kent,

The story has been corrected from the original as Daniel states above.

As for the comment on the FSA who run the register knowing how many people are authorised and whether they are Independent or restricted, it is my understanding that they have absolutely no idea and that they rely on people resigning to come off to reduce current authorisation figures but as for who is what they haven't got a clue.

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Michael Brown

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:03

MOK

There are less advisers, even less bank advisers, soon to be more and the regulatory costs going up and up gives the following:

There will be less advisers which with the costs divided by the lesser numbers then more will leave again.

Just like a dog chasing its tail and in time somebody will say "Where are all the advisers and why are we not saving anymore"

Please go to Barclays and ask there for the answer me thinks.

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Richard via mobile

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:18

Whatever the maths, the FSA has forced advisers out in their droves. It's what Hector would have wanted.......

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James Harrison-Smith

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:26

"36,000 advisers were left in financial services over the period, 58% of whom were IFAs and 19% bank advisers." It will be interesting to see the other 23% percentage breakdown to see how our industry is now made up. Based on these figures 5% of this will be SJP 'partners.'

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:31

Is it any wonder that the world crumbles beneath our feet. 36,000 advisers were in the industry in mid 2012. How many have left the profession of giving regulated advice we do not know.

There could be as few as 20,000 advisers left. There arecertainly two less than the 2012 total.

The FSA do not need to 'research' the problem. As many have stated, the FSA runs the register - they know who is in and who is out.

The curios point is that the 36,000 figure was an extrapolation from a survey of 1200 or so ADVISERS. Surley that proves nothing unless one compares the assumption (the extrapolation) with reality?

The English language and arithmatic are so hard.

@David Prior - it was an attempt at humourous sarcasm on my part David.

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Mr Man

Feb 14, 2013 at 15:47

Nobody in their right mind would invest in setting up a regulated advice firm. If no one new wants to come in to the industry that should say something to those currently still in it. Its a doomed and redundant occupation.

Of those of you left you simply cannot advise on much. You live in fear of advising on anything beyond plain. So many exams so much experience but banned from saying anything. Put on your short trousers as all you can advise on these days is kids stuff.

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Bob Donaldson

Feb 14, 2013 at 16:21

Whenever I go to meetings and seminars, it is the amount of reglation rules and hoops that we have to jump through that is causing problems. You find it hard to simply find the time to see clients these days. They expect more, the FSA expects more, you continuously fight the companies with whom you deal and the fun and satisfaction has gone out of the industry.

How many people are actually doing regular premium business now compared to ten years ago. All the companies I know are now wealth managers not wealth creators.

Just look at how hard it is and the time taken to complete a £50 per month Equity ISA plan now, yet how many of those small savers all those years ago have built on what you did for them 20 plus years ago. Surely it tells you something when you can spend ten minutes filling in a credit card application yet hours completing the advice to take a savings plan.

It is not the financial services act that is killing our industry, it is the volumes of rules and paperwork under which we are all sinking thanks to those that interpret the rules.

It would be interesting to know how many advisors actually get a buzz out of doing the job compared to say ten years ago. By the sound of Terry simply had enough.

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Bob Donaldson

Feb 14, 2013 at 16:25

Continuing Tom Elliot of JPM Guide to the Markets theme this morning, songs from the 60s.

Reminds you of the song, where have all flowers gone, long time passes! substiitute advisors for flowers.

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Ian Lees

Feb 14, 2013 at 16:30

As Theo Patheti . . .cus confirms with regard to Auto Enrolment - I'm Out ! and who will be left to deal with auto enrolment ? Most firms do not have the knowledge , or the skill, or indeed the time. Like the NHS Trusts run by idiots under strong influence to meet policitacal, mercenary targets - rather than the patients ( the Doctors Dilema ? ). At least under RDR we have seen the Death of the Salesman ( and women ) whereas in the NHS Trusts they are run as " Death Camps". Who is next ? Solicitors - and Legal Services ? Bringing standards down to the bone - and with only the bone left - only those an "knawing", little herberts will be left. I think the MP's have been eating to many tesco burgers ( on an each way bet ) . So many people destroyed under RDR, by the Conservative Governement ! So many people have lost access to any Independent Adivce ! So many people have lost out to ANY advice ! The cost of benefits is due to rise - unemployment, income support _ and all because Sir Hector 's silver salver was the "Milk Tray", at Barclays - the gravy train rolls on with Dave Cmaerons cronies on board - free meals expenses - and huge salaries e.g Stephen Hester - RBSthe libor fiddling - and customer swindling Directors - protected by the FSA /FCA and FOS.

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Jonathan Kirby

Feb 14, 2013 at 16:35

@Ian Lees

The Government will claim a success over the horse meat scandal.

It reduces the chance of getting BSE!

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John Phillips

Feb 14, 2013 at 17:23

Every one who has left put their hands up know ! I'm one.

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Smithling

Feb 14, 2013 at 17:32

I do find it odd how people on this site constantly assume that nobody new is joining the industry and that you'd have to be a fool to get involved.

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philip spierling

Feb 14, 2013 at 18:17

PAYDAY LOAN ,, no regulation,,,20 minutes to do on the phone or Internet ,,draconian interest rates,,,end up in the work house.

REGULAR SAVING ISA ,,,hours to set up,,,adviser fees,,,pages of regulatory documentation ,,,compliance coming out of your ears,,,unlimited liability,,,

Something has gone wrong somewhere, ??????????

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Smithling

Feb 14, 2013 at 21:33

@ Philip Spierling

I like your post.

Personally, I'm alright, I'll continue to be alright for the next 30 years of my career... but I must admit, I'm taking a delicious pleasure in watching the world burn around me.

On days where I'm feeling down I like to imagine the future when my generation start hitting retirement and the grandparents' handouts have run out along with the inheritances. The sheer futility of it all makes me chuckle.

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News via mobile

Feb 14, 2013 at 23:11

Ian lees contributes without mentioning tsb Scottish widows and standard life

That is a headline

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Julian Stevens

Feb 15, 2013 at 08:57

As adviser numbers decline, particularly amongst the banks and building societies, it seems reasonable to assume that consumers will either do nothing or will instead seek out an IFA. On the face of it, that sounds good for IFA's. The problem is that IFA's are under so much pressure from regulatory red tape and relentlessly escalating regulatory costs (fewer advisers can only lead to higher levies per adviser) that intermediaries will become unable to take on any but medium to high net worth clients who are prepared to pay the high fees we'll need to charge. Medium to low net worth clients will simply cease to be viable propositions, so where will they go? The MAS?

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David Curley Dip extrodinaire

Feb 15, 2013 at 09:21

The biggest issue we will all face is not the amount of red tape or the fact that many smaller clients are not profitable, it is ' DEATH BY LEVY ' and the reducing market and increasing costs of P.I..

If the FOS FSCS situation is not not resolved soon many more IFAs and businesses will fold through no fault of their own.

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Ian Lees

Feb 15, 2013 at 09:31

I challenge the FSA ( often referred to as the Fickle Services Authority ) as the regulator of reduced powers - to provide clear open and transparent figures of precisely how many advisers they had " authorised " last year i.e April 2012 - against the figures for April 2013 ?

I apologise to the person who missed my mentioning of Edinburgh based bank LloydsTSB ( Toxic Swindling Bank ) or their subbersive subsidiaries scottish widows - as introducers to clerical medical, TSB " life", - or old edinburgh based "stranded Life". for your information the edinburgh elelemnts of banking are being removed form edinburgh - to of all places Leeds ( where other scottish success stories were Billy Bremner etc along with raiding parties in the middle ages ) . Clealry with the SNP objectives of Scotland going it alone - with salmond and sturgeon - out of europe, out of control ( like the cost of the scottish parliament - or edinburgh city's tram line ( usually you need two for a tramline - except in edinburgh - where costs spiral out of control - and the edinburgh fathers - have lost control of services and ambitions of being adequate.

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Nicholas Cane

Feb 15, 2013 at 09:38

I contacted the FSA Data Extract Department last March, asking what I thought were simple questions: 1) How many financial advisers are registered with the FSA and 2) How many of them are Independent?

I had asked the questions to try to make sense of the various predictions being thrown about regarding the fall in financial adviser numbers. Erroneously, I thought that the FSA itself would have had a reliable number on which to base its own calculations.

I was told that at the time there were 130,598 people registered as CF30 and that 'CF30 is a collection of various functions and the FSA does not know specifically who holds them and what functions they perform'.

To try to help me, the writer filtered down the 130,598 to 'how many have a primary function of financial adviser' and this figure came to 28,489. Of this they do not know how many might have been independent.

So, where did this figure of 36,000 figure come from and who worked out 58% were Independent?

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Tracey Case

Feb 15, 2013 at 09:46

With regards the "hands up"...I'm out too.

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Mad Eyes

Feb 15, 2013 at 10:09

@David Curley

SPOT ON.

Costs will sky rocket and ultimately someone has to pay..! Does TCF still exist?

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Ian Lees

Feb 15, 2013 at 10:25

It would appear that it will be harder to find . . . .an Independent Financial Adviser . . . . than Bin Laden ?

Perhaps financial services need the services of someone like . . . Moses . . . to take the pilgrims from the Death and Pestulaence of the FSA and their Government - the Con servative party . . . through the wilderness of financial dis - service from the likes of Libor fiddling Barclays, RBS and LloydsTox ic swindle bank . . . to a land running with milk and honey . . . or as we call it an each way bet on Tesco's " 100 % meat " ( although they do not specify the type of meat ). . . burgers . . . .

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Graeme Laws

Feb 15, 2013 at 12:52

Terry O'Halloran is joining me amoing the ranks of the idle. Good luck old friend, the industry will be a poorer place without you...and that from someone who usually disagreed with you!!

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Jonathan Kirby

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:03

@ Nicolas Cane

I asked them a similar question in 2011 and also asked for breakdown by age as part of my TSC submission:

21-30 1166 4%

31-40 5588 19%

41-50 10545 37%

51-60 8285 29%

61+ 3251 11%

Thats a total of 28,835 so expect a number well below that now.

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fed up with reading crap !!!

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:04

I couldn't agree more Graeme

Enjoy your retirement years Terry you deserve it !

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Ian Lees

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:26

With the destruction of Independent Fianancial Advisers - goes the destruction of small to medium businesses ( or micr business ie up to £ 2,000,000 turnover as descbed by insolvent Bank of Scotland - currently owned by LloydsTSB ). With the death of the salespeople - goes the death of administratrotors - although good quality advisers - did not chuick out their employees - to boost Directors bonuses - as occurred and continue to occur in the insolvent banks. I would like to wish Terry well and he is a great ambasador for financial advice. I forst met him helping people at the LIA - the Pfs, Million Dollar Round Table - and many other events - interacting helping and assisting younger peopel ( like me obviously ) to build their practices - only to be destroyed by the con servative party and their quango the FSA.

I would like to wish Terry and his family all the very best in whatever direction he goes. I am confident he will make a success of it . . . . and I still read his books on Trusts, Mountains out of Mole hills and many more.

Like so many other Indepoendent advisers Terry will be sorely missed - by clients , consumers and colleagues alike.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:32

@Graham Lawes and others, thank you for your kind comments. They are appreciated.

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Jonathan Kirby

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:33

@ Ian Lees

It was Gordon Brown ('Born do wrong' if you like anagrams) that set up the deaFSA.

I know the Tories have failed to take the action they promised in their manifesto, but Gordon set it up specifically to not be accountable to Parliament so he wouldn't take the flack.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 15, 2013 at 13:52

@Ian Lees thanks Ian, I am busy getting the balance of my books sold, thanks for the mention, and doing a bit of lecturing in amongst starting an educational study. I am far from idle. Cheers T

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Ian Lees

Feb 15, 2013 at 14:26

@ Jonathon Kirby . . it may have been set up by Brown and his Bodgers - but we live in the present . . and the CON servatives are in governemtn now . . and have been through the continuation of the NHS Trusts ( or as they are more accurately recorded - " Death Camps " ), and the on going failure of Cameronand his Cronies - allow the destruction of Independent Financial Advice - the destruction of Advisers - and the destruction of the micro businesses of Adivsers ie less than £ 2,000,000 turnover according to the insoolvent Bank of Scotland sold to edinburghs - LloydsTSB once agian under Gordon the Gopher Brown - and Phoney Blair - the warmonger. It is up to the con servatives to rectify incompetence or negligence - or lead the banks out of temptation by incarcerating people like Eric Damiels at Lloyds Toxic Swindle bank - or bob at Barclays - still trading as an adviser with Barclays - under the watchful eye of Sir Hector Stinks !

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 15, 2013 at 18:05

@ Julian Stevens

Hi Julian

Did you know that there was a MAS before MAS was invented and MAS borrowed £386 million to launch it? Apparently this particular website has been around for years, has a blow-by-blow account of how to write a cheque and even the dummy mechanism for how to access a hole in the wall or operate an internet account.

If the government had done any research, if the FSA was up to speed, they could have saved us all a great deal of money.

You will be pleased to know I am going into training now – when I can find somebody to train.

Best regards.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 15, 2013 at 18:12

www.moneymatterstome.co.uk Sorry forgot to put the web address Julian.

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David Moore1812

Feb 15, 2013 at 18:24

Terry - Sorry to hear you are leaving the industry and I wish you the very best for the future..

I had intended retiring myself but due to divorce I cannot afford to retire before age 75 so I have done what is necessary to qualify and am enthuisiastic for the future. The old adage that 80% of your income comes from 20% of your clients is correct and in order to survive you have to concentrate on those profitable clients. We have already removed 500 clients from our books who represent the 80% of non profitable clients. Over the past 43 years I have accumulated a large number of clients and retained them regardlessly. Now a commercial decision has had to be made.

Despite all the hassle, I still get huge satisfaction of helping my clients.

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Terence O'Halloran

Feb 18, 2013 at 09:52

@David Moore Hi David. I empathise with your position.

On the subject of clients; my two biggest clients stemmed from a £10 per month savings plan where after 10 years he sold out for £3.4 million and two Allied Crowbar pensions that I looked after for a twice redundent client who sold out 18 years later for 16.4 million (direct investments £5.4 million).

The old 'acres of diamonds' story bears reading again and again.

I nurtured ALL of my clients even beyond selling out. You never know what life throws at you, or from where. All the very best . T

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