Towry says ‘hit squad’ will clear transfer jam in a month

Funny how Fisher still states that he inherited the backlog!! So image this would still be the case if you didn't buy Edward Jones Mr Fisher!?

They said that a month ago!!!!

How can anyone believe what Mr Fisher and his company say is true? Having worked at Edward Jones up to the sale of the company I know there was no backlog of transfers when Towry bought the company. Having had clients want to stay with me after leaving the company I know that the backlog has occured after the sale to Towry.

How then can Mr Fisher say that Towry inherited the backlog when it bought the UK arm. If there were backlogs then why did Towry take on a promise and write again to confirm the promise to clients that their ISA's would be transferred in 30 days from request of the transfer being received by Edward Jones/Towry. If they knew there was a backlog they should have written to all clients to explain about the backlog at the time they knew about it.

Of course they didn't because the truth is that the transfers started to take place after Towry bought the company and it has been their full responsibility to have completed the transfers from the day they bought it.

Mr Fisher's statement to the press about the backlog I believe to be an untrue statement to put the blame on someone else in order to try to protect the value of Towry. If he is prepared to say these things how can anything else he and his company say be taken as the truth?

This awful behaviour by Towry should not be permitted in our industry.

Typical Towry - try moving money away from them and they are all over the clients - funny that they can be extremely efficient when the want to be!!!

Top marks for ethics I think Mr Fisher (not)

In excess of 6 months, 7 months in my case, however I have received a cheque this morning for 5% of my assets that they are still holding. Only another 95% to go Mr Fisher a small fraction in your book I know, but I won't hold my breath for 4 weeks!

Another load of tosh from Fisher and his cronies, there were no backlogs when Towry bought Edward Jones- it is just an attempt to smokescreen the sheer volume of assets that Towry are losing, to bolster Towry attempts at "floating in 12 months".

I have clients waiting since mid Febraury for ISA transfers, let's see if they get their funds transferred in 4 weeks, i'm not putting any money on it, - Not bad 5 months to transfer ISA's. Where are the FSA in all of this, i just hope some of my clients' complaints direct to the FSO and FSA actually lead to action against this shocking company- I am so glad i didn't sign that Towry contract, but i am just sorry for some of my ex colleagues that did!.

The FSA don't recognise that their has been a problem. The Financial Ombudsman haven't told them of any issues, so everything must be okay.

Utterly pathetic. The FSA are supposed to big on TCF. Towry have totally ignored more than one of the outcomes. They should be hammered for this. A perfect opportunity for the new regualtor to lay down a marker

Well I think you lot above are cycnical mob and I for one believe him, such a sincere smile, his highly regarded reputation within the industry could be stained if he were to fail.

I trust Citywire will mark the calendar and report back?

Fisher is lying again, the backlog didn't exist unti after the sale had occurred and all the inteligent Jones clients decided they didn't want anything to do with Towry Outlaw and their overpriced prepackaged, non independent portfolios.

4 months and waiting - incoorect procedures in Complaint handling as well. Ombudsman & FSA also fail to implement TCF

What can you expect from a man who looks like one of the Goodies?

To say that Towry inherited the backlog is untruthful. Most transfer requests were submitted earlier this year, well after the purchase date by Towry. This is appalling. Is he really fit and proper to hold his position. I am now questioning his integrity. Shameful!

So far, Mr Fisher, everyone who's posted a comment here seems to think you're a liar. What say you?

They inherited the backlog when the six months of Edward Jones name/resources they bought as part of the deal ran out in mid May (approx 21st).

St Louis had been dealing with the transfers from the end of November until then.

Almost all the transfer requests were submitted since the start of the year.

A comment from the team dealing with incoming transfers where i am now...."they have told us they have a black hole of information recieved prior to the end of March"

God help the clients!

To anonymous 13 - Towry did not inherit the backlog approx. Mid May of this year. They had an agreement with Jones that as part of the sale Jones would administer the transfers up until the 30th April. However this agreement still meant that Towry were fully responsible for all transfers.

Towry conveniently ignored what was going on with the transfers up unitl Edward Jones handed the work over in early May. It was clear very early in the process (Feb 2010) more resources needed be given to dealing with backlog. If Towry had been treating customers fairly they would have put in more resources once it became evident they were falling behind. This should have been done once the 30 day limits were being breached which were as early as late February 2010. They didn't because their culture is to not treat fairly those clients who do not wish to invest the way Towry wants them to invest.

I don't think God can help the clients in this matter - Towry and the FSA can!

Anonymous 3. Maybe i didn't make myself clear.

I wasn't disputing the actual fact of when they became responsible, I was more referring to when Towry took over the administration of transfers.

I agree entirely that they were still responsible.

I think that it is the convenient date that they are using as a smokescreen to cloud the issue.

I also know that EJ in the US were stil dealing with some administration until at least the second week in May (on behalf of Towry) because they were still the point of contact for the (inward) transfer team in the business i work at until then.

Subsequently it became effectively an Indian call centre employed by Towry as far as we could tell!

To Anonymous 12 what's wrong with the Goodies, they were great. Gave acting jobs to fluffy white kittens. Also which Goody in particular?

Well Towry Slow now say that they have a "hit squad"? Only one letter out methinks.

I have been waiting on 30 transfers for over 4 months now. Not one client transfer has been completed.

When I look at the status on the platform I use, ALL clients with holdings of £50k plus have not even had their transfer process acknowledged by Towry and no valuation returned to enable the transfer to proceed.

The only valuations returned are for smaller portfolios.

This can't be a coincidence and only strengthens my believe that Towry are holding onto client assets for financial gain.

About time Towry were shut down. FSA where are you? Surely keeping someone's money against their will is STEALING. Talk about give financial services a bad name! I'm an ex BOA who sees ex EJ clients regularly - ALL of whom have requested transfers - NONE of whom have even had the courtesy of a letter from Towry. NONE of them know who their adviser is. NONE of them kinow where their money/assets are. This is an utter disgrace. EJ and Weddle should hang their heads in shame too - how dare they leave us dedicated workers and their trusting clients in this position? Is there a publication in the USA that would be interested - if anyone knows then please post on here and I will write to them. Why didn't Jones give the workers a chance to buy the business? Kirley in cahoots with Fisher and Fisher in cahoots with FSA - as rumour has it - and I believe it.

Kirley's crocodile tears on the day of sale and his complete disappearance soon after are very telling!

There wasn't a backlog... there was hardly enough to fill the day towards the end. The busy time came when the clients (including me) decided to get out fast once we were no longer served by Edward Jones. So don't try to pull that one Mr F! I put in for my ISA transfer WEEKS ago and the stock was eventually sold at the end of May so why is he hanging on to the proceeds for so long? It is, after all MY money....

To anon 17

I was interviewed by Andy Cowan I think that was his name No2 at Towry,In the interview he told me that they influenced the FSA towards Towry business model and Towry had a big say in RDR.

Not sure if this was Bullsh1t or if there was any truth in what was said.

But the words did come from this chaps mouth.

I love it !! He even looks like he runs a ranch in texas

who is he trying to fool !! he aint very convincing going by the general message from these posts yyeeeeeeaaaaaa haaaaaa ride 'em cowboy !!!!!!!!!!

How the hell can a 'new hit squad team' expect to clear this? 10 people! Well nobody has asked me to return to the fold and do this job - the one I was doing before. Is he (Fisher) going to have to train people? This takes time. Is HE taking staff from other areas? Customer service decreases, if that is possible. What will happen to these special 10 after they clear the backlog? Throw them on the scrapheap like he does to anyone who doesn't join the Towry cult. If they are temps, we all know what that means - especially when temps were employed in Canary Wharf. E's 'avin a larf !!!!!! Let's wait and see and hope it works for the sake of clients......

What a load of **** from Fisher.

I don’t know how City Wire can give so much air space to such bull.

Little to no new resources have been added. Towry are in a complete mess, except that is, when it comes to collecting their broker commissions on investments that should have been transferred months ago.

If the regulator does not slap fisher into place it will be more of the same for months to come!

Come on Lord Turner do something before your go.

Amazing how many Anonymice there are out there! Don't expect any support from the FSA over TCF guys.I had the same situation a few years ago moving from an Awful Wicked Despot of a company. When I wrote to the FSA to ask how they could square their precious TCF principles with the Awful Wicked Despot's desire to keep clients not lawfully theirs; they replied that they would never seek to influence a company contract.

Shows a fine contempt for their precious principles.

Regarding the delays experienced in transfering ISAs the coalition government is planning to impose a 15 day max transfer on cash ISAs. Would this apply to equity contracts which have ben cashed before transfer? If not, why not? In specie transfers can be just as quick, so why not extend the rule to this too?

To Anon 16 re your interview, while I get some of the arguments here I really cannot believe that this Andy Cowan would say something that silly or potentially damaging in an interview with a stranger. Regardless of what you think of any of them, none of them are stupid.

I doubt, even if it were true, that any of them would even say that in a private meeting with colleagues from inside the company while on a trip to the middle of the desert with a major sandstorm blowing and certainly not to someone applying for a job.

Perhaps you 'misheard'? ;-) It's been said before.

Long long delays for in Specie transfers is not acceptable and not TCF. However something else is much much worse. Many clients choose to transfer their Investment ISAs across as cash for new investment at the other end. Towry, after huge delays, are then selling clients investments but then not sending the cash across for many weeks or even longer. This forces clients to be out of the market against their will.

Me think the "Hit man and Her" would do a better job, for all you IFA's of a certain age- come on Pete Waterman, you could do a better job, oh and don't forget Michaela!!

To anon 14,

I am an elephant in disguise, no being serious I have a memory like an elephant and can recall this statement word for word. To confirm this was not mis -heard.

I was shocked that Andy Cowan would come out with such a statement, after spending many years in a boardroom environment this was unprofessional.

To summarise:

My pipeline of new business was substantial and real and hence I had no intention of accepting any role at Towry as I was waiting for my FSA authorisation to go through to become an IFA and was buying a little time.

Based on my pipeline and confidence of the quality of my pipeline, I was able to project earnings as an IFA and also earnings if business was closed under Towry.

What was clear was all this chap was interested in is how much under management and how much in the pipeline.

Obvious there was no way of confirming the value of my pipeline claims and a renumeration package could be offered based on how much of the pipeline brought into Towry, At this point Andy mentioned what the top earners are making, to give him a little credit he did not disclose names.

I questioned the potential salaries and targets that would be offered by Towry and for the same targets if I went down the IFA route my earning would be substantially greater than if I joined then Towry Law. Not to mention the tax implication.

My pipeline business would have seen me with earning going down the IFA route of well over six figures and 3.5 times what Towry offered.

After presenting the numbers to Andy he told me that within a few years the likelyhood of an IFA earning over £95,000 is very unlikely.

I recall Andy followed this up with Towry are changing the way Financial Services will be in the future which over the past six months we have all heard many times over.

I responded by asking how Towry are changing the way Financial Services will be in the future?

At this point Andy was still attempting to build the credability of Towry to a lost cause and at this point he made the said statement.

"Towry influenced the FSA towards Towry business model and Towry had a big say in RDR"

I was not impressed with Towry before the Interview and certainly not impressed by their management, after attending a meeting with Mr Fisher during the Interview with Andy Cowan or over the past six months with the transfer games Towry are playing.

My statements of fact.

I can confirm I made the correct decision personally and financially.

In the final months of my Edward Jones career my activity was minimal apart from looking after existing clients.

I am not a career changer like most Edward Jones advisers.

From day one of joining Edward Jones I had an agenda and it was not to remain there longer than necessary as the business model was obviously flawed but they did fit the purpose.

The mentioned pipeline was built using my own finances through private networking.

I would also like to state that everyone of the clients I managed at Edward Jones have contacted me and are in the process of transfering out, this is a small % (Mr Fisher) less than 10% of my business, this confirms i can find my own clients, but knowing that Towry have their own agenda one thing that I am committed towards is treating customers fairly which is something Towry can't say based on the recent activities. Hence why I am accepting these clients into my business.

For those who want to call me mercenary in my dealings with Edward Jones and Towry - this is business.

My aim is to continue providing clients with second to none service and the sooner Towry are out of the picture the better for the industry, my clients and the unfortunate guys of Raymond James.

Finally why am I posting as anonymous, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out.

Actually i can concur with Anon 16 that Andrew Fisher, Andy Cowan and most of the management team have stated, both openly and in private, that they are in regular communication with he FSA, have influenced the FSA and more importantly, claim that the FSA see the TL model as the "best" model post RDR.

So I would ask the FSA to confirm or deny this.......................................................

I became an Edward Jones client rather than a Towry Law client simply because the former offered me a service I liked and wanted, and the latter didn't. So it's hardly a surprise that hundreds like me have decided to go elsewhere, and we will go elsewhere when Towry Law finally comply with their contractual agreements with us.

My finances are dependent on my investments trapped in Towry Law's mess, so I'm not best pleased by their dishonest excuses and their delaying tactics, which appear to be aimed at coercing clients in my position into accepting their terms. But there are ways round this problem: ask a decent financial adviser (but not one of the poor saps at Towry Law).

Apologies to Anon 16. I'll take your word for it about the quote though I still find it very surprising.

To Anon 21: That is a slightly different statement. I would imagine that most IFA's, especially the larger ones, are in regular contact with the FSA and as everyone moves towards the changes it would seem not only logical but essential that the FSA consult with, communicate with and study the various ways the companies operate. In that sense every IFA they have looked have will have 'influenced' them.

I actually feel sorry for Fisher, he is obviously not as business minded as he would have us believe.......

Who in their right mind would not think that clients who were taken to EDJ by EFA's would not follow or track down their adviser. Some of us have a long relationships, which include childrens birthday parties, marriages and funerals, of course not forgetting EDJ allowed our personal telephone numbers on EDJ business cards.

Of the New news they were taught and encouraged to build strong relationships with their clients and most of us did an excellent job.

It was NOT the client/adviser relationship which failed, it was the basic business model which the americans would not alter to suit the UK market.

Mr Fisher wake up and smell the coffee, the 6,000 plus clients awaiting transfers will not say to your guys "perhaps I'll stay with you and give you another chance", you've blown it, let the clients have their transfers.

As an ex-boa of EJ and who did not go with Towry, I have run out of words trying to describe to my friends the fiasco going on at the moment, with many of our elderly clients thinking their money has disappeared into a black hole somewhere.

I think the best thing the "hit squad" can do is turn their weapons on Mr F and "bop bop bop" against the wall.

Just had a telephone call from a client, still awaiting his transfer (been in the pipeline for about ten weeks) asking if he would like to reconsider his options and hear about the exciting things happening at Towry............What!!!!! they're going have a fisher baiting day and didn't invite all us fans....LOL

To Anon 14: Yes I agree with you but what TL management are trying to imply to their staff is that TL are the most influential company with regards to the FSA and RDR (by a mile) and that their model is the best one the FSA has seen. Brainwashing staff into this serves two puposes. 1) It makes the "adviser" sound more believeble whan trying to churn assets. 2) it retains staff as they then believe that all other companies are behind them in terms of RDR. Quite frankly, it scares them into staying.

But as to the extent of their influence is anyones's guess. Judging by the lack of action by the FSA it wouldn't be surprising if Fisher's tentacles actually reached deep into a few of the FSA puppets.

It is interesting to note that Towry are owned by Palemon Capital Partners. If you look on the website www.palamon.com go to the section marked "advisors" you will see that one advisor is a certain Ron Sandler CBE. Makes you think eh??

Whilst I have sympathy with the advisers, and even more with the clients, it is genuinely uplifting to see the affect that Towry have had on the market place. Nothing has brought advisers together in condemnation of bad advisory models in the way that seeing that one in action has.

I wholly believe the statements regarding 'inadvisable' comments made by management, and only hope that the current servicing disaster proves to the FSA that the Towry model is not as attractive to customers, or at least not all customers as they claim, and that they (the FSA) finally recognise that in an industry which is largely driven in the personal space by close interpersonal relationships, advice is better provided by smaller businesses. I can understand their concern about 'one man bands' although I disagree with it, mostly, but their love for nationals is inexplicable to me in terms of their goals. Yes they make life easier, but provide worse outcomes for customers.

Large business are more difficult to regulate and systemically more dangerous, but they look easier I suppose, and have the money to bribe, uh sorry, lobby regulators and other important people.

It's just a shame that the regulators are so easily (mis)lead by these companies.

To Anon 21 OK I had no idea who that was but I did do a search and see the bio on the site and understand the comment you made.

But again, it kind of goes back to my previous argument, when you get to a certain level of high ranking positions in finance and related industries in the UK I would imagine that the pool of available fish gets pretty small. I do realize the piscine related puns will come flying in, oh damn, now there will be 'flying fish' puns. Bring 'em on. Puns keep the blog contributers/lurkers coming back and as far as I am concerned, the more discussion, debate and downright argument, the better, on any subject. I am a big fan of getting every side of a debate out there no matter how nuts or extreme. Usually in the end it will come down to good debate. Well unless you count last weekend's events not far from here but that's another story.

One other comment I would add, you think the mistrust in 'one man bands' is generally misplaced. You are probably right. But the thing is, nearly every time a scandal hits it seems to us lay-people that it's a one man band who took the money and ran. We've just had yet another huge one here. One of a very long line. Millions of dollars of savings, gone. Mostly from elderly people who are now hoping to be greeters or shelf stockers at Walmart, CT or Zellers because their pension money is gone and the state pension is negligible. It may not be fair, but every one of those cases reported in the press is a nail in the coffin for one man bands and makes us all either go to the safety of a bank or, if we have enough money, to a large IFA like T or HL or whatever.

BTW no I don't have that kind of money :-)

To Anon 21. You are on the money. Something smells here. I will get my people looking into this. The FSA are also failing the clients here in their adoption of the principles of TCF. Compensation for the mismanagement of client money will need to be looked at. There are at least 6000 clients awaiting transfer and some have been waiting 5 months.

Anonymous 11... gee I wish I had 'people' to look into things, We will wait for your report once 'your people' get back to you.

Shall we all meet at Liverpool St. Station wearing carnation buttonholes with a rolled up copy of the Times under our left arms? I will be the one with annoyed look enhanced by my handle bar moustache and monacle.

Sorry but your post just made me laugh out loud.

Anon 14. Your might be closer than you think - I am glad it amused you !

Just had a copy of an email sent to me from a client. The email is from an employee of Towry to the client. In the email it clearly blames Edward Jones for the backlog of transfers. It says that Edward Jones handed Towry the backlog. This is yet another manipulation of the truth by Towry. As previously stated in other entries above the backlog only built up AFTER Towry bought the Edward Jones UK.

This is clear evidence that Towry are not being honest with clients, even to the extent of putting it in writing.

On another matter - seeing clients soon who over 90 days asked for their accounts to be transferred from Towry Investment Management Ltd. They are still waiting for over £300,000 of it to come over. Of course they have complained to Towry demanding any charges that they have incurred to be refunded.

Another client the other day phoned Towry to chase what had happened to his transfer of over £100,000 which has still not been completed after over 120 days since their request. Towry had verbally promised him that it would all be completed by the end of June. When he phoned them yesterday the response was that they could not tell him where his money was, not even to tell him what money they were supposed to be transferring .............. the client now thinks that there is some kind of fraud going on at Towry - surely not!

Fraud! Maybe a call to SOCA will get the FSA off their arse.

Anon 3 if your client believes that his money has dissappeared it is your duty to inform your MLO who will contact SOCA on your clients behalf.

This maybe your clients only hope

Ps Alex Steger your next headline for Citywire

Towry investigated for Fraud.

Quote from an adviser within TL 'Four weeks my AR**.....!!!'

This was after an ex EDJ adviser called his colleagues 'buck passing incompetant bunch of shysters'.... and so the internal wrangling and looking for blame continues. Colleague turning against colleague, some have swallowed the TL Bullsh** pill whilst others still hold the essence of TCF.

To all my ex colleagues.....There is life away from EDJ/TL and it is much happier, unless you've sold your soul for a basic salary (which may end when they consider your usefulness over).

Better to jump ship now, than be tainted by the potential downfall of a shabby organisation.

Has anyone yet contacted their MP or a government minister regarding this debacle. Should there be suspicions of fraudulent activity surely this should be investigated at a higher level. I regularly see EJ clients and one of them has told me that a Towry adviser put the telephone down on him because he did not want to invest any money at the moment. He could not remember the advisers name but it was not the one he dealt with at EJ. You have to ask yourself what kind of company is this. It beggars belief.

So far two clients wishing to transfer their account out of Towry have complained to the FSA. A third called me this morning to tell me he was sending a letter this weekend. They've all been waiting since either the last week in February or the first week in March.

Not sure if the FSA take any notice of mass letters on the doormat but maybe its time for us all to mount a co-operative campaign from all clients to complain.

It might be a bit petty but they started it!

The reason why there is this huge mess is because in June last year, Towry transferred their investment operations to SEI, cutting their Investment Ops team down from 53 people to 11. Thats why they don't have enough people to cope with these transfers

Anon 11 actually better not do the rolled copy of the Times thing, the Americans will think we are spies......

Gosh,

It's all getting a bit exicitable here isn't it?

Question? - anon 14 is that you Ellie Mae I think I can tell your sense of humour a mile off. There simply can't be two with the same sense of postings, hunger for debate and a wicked sense of humour.

Anon 16 - jeeps aren't you getting all hot under the collar and excitable over all this, don't you think SOCA investigators have a whole lot more interesting and importants things to be spending time on? Than clients ISA transfers from Towry to churning kings? What's the matter commission a bit tight this month?

Now then fact: EDJ US had a written contract agreement to process all transfer & transactional business up to the end of APRIL yes that's right the sale contract agreed between NOVEMBER and APRIL they were completing ALL transactions..... Fact: they didn't! They breached the sale contract and let all transactions pile up (6000+) why? Because as we have stated before the majority of EDJ staff are incompetent!!

Hence why ANON 1-1million ex ej staff are screaming for these transfers - get real it's not for the client it's because you need these assets to churn sell a new insurance CIB for 4% commission to start up your new terrific self-employed business. If your EJ through & through why you not back out knocking doors with the 'bettaware' man to get new clients to make your million? Whilst your waiting for your transfers to complete if that's what the client wants? (debatable) rather than slagging, slating and generally lying to clients about the T business staff & model - meanwhile making our industry look childish & unprofessional. As much as these blogs do too.

Gosh,

It's all getting a bit exicitable here isn't it?

Question? - anon 14 is that you Ellie Mae I think I can tell your sense of humour a mile off. There simply can't be two with the same sense of postings, hunger for debate and a wicked sense of humour.

Anon 16 - jeeps aren't you getting all hot under the collar and excitable over all this, don't you think SOCA investigators have a whole lot more interesting and importants things to be spending time on? Than clients ISA transfers from Towry to churning kings? What's the matter commission a bit tight this month?

Now then fact: EDJ US had a written contract agreement to process all transfer & transactional business up to the end of APRIL yes that's right the sale contract agreed between NOVEMBER and APRIL they were completing ALL transactions..... Fact: they didn't! They breached the sale contract and let all transactions pile up (6000+) why? Because as we have stated before the majority of EDJ staff are incompetent!!

Hence why ANON 1-1million ex ej staff are screaming for these transfers - get real it's not for the client it's because you need these assets to churn sell a new insurance CIB for 4% commission to start up your new terrific self-employed business. If your EJ through & through why you not back out knocking doors with the 'bettaware' man to get new clients to make your million? Whilst your waiting for your transfers to complete if that's what the client wants? (debatable) rather than slagging, slating and generally lying to clients about the T business staff & model - meanwhile making our industry look childish & unprofessional. As much as these blogs do too.

To Anonymous 23 - your facts are correct, Edward Jones US did have a contract with Towry to administer the transfers. Towry agreed, by free choice, with Edward Jones that this administration would run up to the end of April.

If what you say is true about the majority of staff at Edward Jones being incompetent then why did Towry choose to arrange a contract with Edward Jones at the time of the sale? This does not make any sense. Towry freely agreed the contract because they saw that it was one less expense for them to have to take on board in order to increase the value of Towry for their shareholders.

If the contract was broken then Towry should be taking action against Edward Jones and putting these facts in writing to all those clients who are waiting for the transfers to complete. If the fact is true that it is all Edward Jone's fault then clients will better understand. But the reason why they don't put it in writing is that there is only one company to blame - Towry, They had full control of all the events since they bought Edward Jones UK. Towry are fully responsible for any success or failure they had with the contract with Edward Jones and are fully responsible for huge delays in transfers.

And as for the accusations about churning - any evidence of churning should be reported immediately to the interested parties. Again just put it in writing to sort it all out - but I'm sure there is no evidence to support these wild accusations.

I will no doubt get flamed for this but it's alright, I will don my best pair of asbestos knickers. Anyway, could someone here, lurking or blogging, tell me what 'churning' actually means in this context? I am serious. I understand what it means from an HR point of view and also in the IT world, but I am not sure about the world of finance. I think I have an idea but that is based on what I read on these blogs which can be, as we all know, a little bit off the wall at times.

1. What is churning?

2. Why is it bad?

Thanks. EMC

PS if this double posted it is because I got a server error earlier which does seem to happen at this time of the evening - early hours of morning in UK.

To Anonymous 14 - Churning in the world of financial advisers is where a series of transactions takes place with a client, sale and re-investments of an investment or pension for examples, where the prime reason for the sale is for the adviser to make money out of the transaction (this could be a fee or commission).

If an adviser can convince a client, say every two or three years, to move their money into different schemes then the adviser most likely is rewarded financially with either an initial commission or fee. Clearly this makes more money for the adviser each transaction than just leaving the initial investment/pension intact.

Churning is bad because of the prime motive. It is done for the benefit of the adviser not the client. The adviser may be able to come up with some very convincing reasons for the client to change their investments to get the client to agree with the transactions in order to hide the issue that the main reason for the advice was for money to be earned by the adviser. If say every three years the client is moving their money then there most likely would be set up costs to create the new investment, or a fee for the advice to change, reducing the amount of growth for the client on each new transaction.

I have been in the industry over 20 years. Churning was far easier for unethical advisers to implement 20 years ago because essentially there was only a verbal agreement with the client as to the reason for changing/creating an investment. In today's arena any advice has to be quantified in writing to a client in a suitability letter. This significantly reduces the chances of churning as it must include all the reasons why it is best for the client to make any changes and include reasons why things weren't kept the same.

Churning related to the Towry situation is this. If any adviser recommends to a client that they should sell or any part of their existing investments then it must be shown that it is "appropriate" for them to do so and why the existing investments are not appropriate. If the existing investments are appropriate for the clients then they should retain the investments. If the client does not want these investments to be administered by Towry then they can transfer these funds/shares/bonds "in-specie" (as they are) to another company. This can be done at no cost or a very small fee.

It could be argued that Towry are churning because they are convincing clients that they sell their existing investments to go into Towry's discretionary service. Fees can be generated initially for this transaction and most likely there will be greater costs for the clients in the longer term because of increased annual costs. But if Towry have put in writing to the client why it is deemed "appropriate" for the client to invest in the new service (including costs) and why the existing investment (including costs) are not appropriate then everything is okay and as long as the client fully understands all these reason why and why not, then most likely it is not churning.

If a non-Towry adviser convinces a client to sell out of the investments they have with Towry and then re-investment the proceeds in new investments outside the Towry group of companies then this again could be deemed as churning. Again to avoid churning it would need to be shown in a suitability letter as to exactly why it was appropriate for the client to sell rather than transfer in-specie, again including all costs.

It all comes down to treating the customer fairly. As finance is so complicated it is very possible to convince a client to take an action by creating a false "appropriateness". Advisers much always do what is truly appropriate for the client. Anyone or any company that can do this will have a successful business because clients and the industry will benefit.

One thing I do find surprising within this whole debacle, is that Citywire allows Mr Fisher to make wholly untrue claims. Surely any reporter of any note would challenge what is being said, attempt to gain some evidence either in support of his claims or in conflict with his claims. If any evidence were sought, it would be extremely easy to find evidence that his claims were completely false and as such would that not be a better story, ie One of most senior players in the financial services industry openly lies to cover his back?

That feels like a better story to me, rather than Mr Fisher commits that he will sort things out in 30 days, which will then make it only 6 months to transfer an ISA from Towry.

If the industry is indeed to become more transparent and values based, surely having a senior member of it, who openly lies, wouldn't be conduscive to it?

Which begs the question as to whether Citywire is an independent news provider or a vehicle for self promotion to the highest bidder?

Anonymous 3. Thank you very much. We could do with a similar system. Hopefully with time we will. Especially in the light of yet another one-man-band IFA scandal here.

Anonymous 24. How do you know he is lying? Do you have proof? Perhaps Citywire have investigated and found his statements to be true. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

As for fairness, they allow you to name him in a public forum and make accusations represented as fact, when if YOU were being honest you would be more careful to make it clear that it is merely speculation on your part.

Let's face it, everything said in these comments with the exception of our direct experience in connection with this matter, can only be speculation, no? In my case, as I have made pretty clear from the get-go, I have had direct experience of dealing with the people who have been hurt emotionally and financially because they were inappropriately hired by EJ who knew they were totally unsuitable for the job and who had no intention of retaining them. That was my reason for following the news story of the takeover in the first place.

Sticking around since then has become a bit of an amusing hobby for me. In no small part because of comments like yours presented as 'fact'. It is for that reason that I like to put my grubby little finger on the other side of the scale every now and then to keep a little balance going, well that and to wind you up obviously, :-)

Anon 400 Zillion

Your comments on these blogs are getting on my tits.

You stand out a mile with your childish posts which have no foundation what so ever.

The constant reference to IFAs churning just shows you as the idiot you clearly are.

I for one do not churn and do not charge for switching funds. My charges are fair and after all any business is entitled to make a profit and if you don't agree you are not a business man and certainly not qualified to advise a client or manage your own money.

Maybe you should find an IFA that wants to take you on as a client. however you have made it quite clear you think Towry are the best thing since sliced bread, so look foward to the poor service and high charges Towry offer.

If this was a court case, the amount of evidence against Towry is damning and I'm sure their defence lawyer would be up against it.

I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could defend them.

But there is always the village idiot.....

Anonymous 16, I understand that you take all this very seriously and people like me and Anon 400 Zillion make you cross. But think about it a little more from my perspective - note I can't speak for Anon 4 Zillion who obviosly can speak for themselves.

I have had many jobs during my lifetime, I have been downsized/let go/restructured/made redundant/call it what you like a number of times. Usually after a merger. This is normal in business around the world. With very few exceptions none of these redundancies (mine or anyone else's) is personal. It is business. Apart from working in an HR related industry - hence my experience with ex-EJ employees over the years - I have also worked in IT. I worked in a number of roles, web producer, programming, testing and frequently in online communities management and development. These blogs are a community. But it works well because of the presence of of dissent.

If the only people posting said something along the lines of 'Fisher is an absolute knave and a charlatan and should be taken outside and given a thorough thrashing, what say you?' Followed by a little flurry of 'Aye!'s ............ If no one happened to pop in and say 'Um, hang on a bit chaps, do we have proof? Are we really sure? Perhaps some of the facts are not actually 'facts'?', if there are no dissenters, then the entire thread would come to a screeching halt.

Do you remember Spike Milligan? He had a comedy show on TV way back when. When a sketch failed or ran out of steam they would all shuffle sideways mutter 'What are we going to do now?' A blog that only has agreement amoungst the commenting community is like that.

EMC

A small observation as a client, if as it seems the vast majority of the transfers are in specie then it really doesnt matter how long the transfer takes from the clients point of view they are simply moving from one box to another. I am not sure what the fuss is all about

Interesting point Anonymous 25. So much like my pension savings which are with my bank, if I wanted them to go to another bank it would not affect me how long it took because either way I am not going to be accessing the money anyway until I reach retirement age. Is that it?

To Anon 25 - i think that there may be a number of issues here, but as there are so many clients and advisers, it could be one or all of them - (1) are TL in reciept of fees/commission for having the assets under their stewardship? if so, this is income that they are unjustly recieving whilst their new adviser may be recieving nothing for doing the work. (2) Advisers may be moving in specie to reduce the costs to the client, with the intention of diversifying further - whether or not fees/commissions are being taken as this is a secondary issue. (3) what are the charges that TL are applying and what will the new costs be in the new "box" - are the clients being subjected to a higher charge through TL's inefficiencies?

These are just a few that sprang instantly to mind, no doubt some clever people will come up with a few more by next week.

Anon 16 - you are quite correct, Anon 400 Zillion is a tit, easily recognised and avoided. EMC - I've already caught you out so i suggest you re-invent yourself.

Not sure what you mean Anon 21. I signed my posts EMC - when I remember to. it's not exactly rocket science to figure what name I used to post under before they changed the system to Anonymous x or whatever.

If you call that 'catching me out' I hear the Russians are short a few spies. Judging by what I have read they weren't very bright spies. You'll fit right in :o)

EMC - stands for......? consider it the first part of your application test for spy-school :-)

I forgot again. That last one should have been signed EMC

EMC

Anon 21 - are you suggesting that Anon 400 Zillion and I are the same person perhaps? Now that is very funny, and completely wrong but I bet Anon 400 Zillion will get a laugh out of it.

I have consistently posted exactly the same information about myself. even people who completely disagree with me and agree with you have mentioned that in the past. Our writing styles are nothing alike though we do share the same sense of humour.

But here's a few things that would be hard to fake: my I.P. address which Citywire can see so they know which ISP if access the net with, one that is not available in the UK. At the moment it is hotter than hell here, as I have spent the day painting (walls not art) believe me I know, a Golden Girls rerun is on Channel 525 which in spite of having hundreds of channels in both official languages, that's the only vaguely interesting thing on - not a football fan.

If you choose to accept this assignment please use the clues mentioned above and explain to me how you have 'caught me out'?

Ah and thanks for yet another laugh and a reason to come back between coats to check for the latest apoplectic missive from your good self.

EMC

Oh and it is now seven minutes to four in the afternoon. Howzat Anon 21? Gawd I get so much enjoyment out of all this. It's a cheap hobby and non-fattening. What more could I ask?

I do not even pretend to know as much about this as all the Anonymous contributors but I have no chance of ever being (or wanting to be) employed by Towry Law, so:

i) If Mr Fisher carried out due diligence prior to acquiring Edward Jones in October, he has no excuse for the massive backlog of clients wanting to transfer nine months later

ii) I have repeatedly complained about Edward Jones - not from a TCF basis, far from it - because their costs of running the business over the last five or six years were more than twice as much as their gross revenue - i.e. their pre-tax loss, on average, exceeded their turnover. This is why the Yanks eventually gave up and sold out.

iii) EJ registered itself with the FSA as a stockbroker, so that it could make investments in individual securities for clients, but Towry Law has not done so; consequently Towry Law was honour bound to transfer all clients with investments in individual stocks (and not just collectives) to another FSA-registered firm authorised to buy and - more importantly - sell individual securities - to another FSA-registered firm with the relevant authorisations at the date of acquisition or as soon as possible thereafter.

iv) As a result of ii) and iii) anyone with an IQ in excess of his shoe size should have set up a transfer team for those who required an adviser with FSA authorisation to advise on individual securities or who required services whose cost exceeded 200% of the revenue from providing the services to transfer these clients to a more appropriate or lower-cost adviser. It seems that EJ were offering a service that cost more than revenue in the hope of building up a client base from which they might generate future income as they did in the USA, but the UK economics were not the same as in the USA

v) I have big feet so my IQ is just less than twenty times my UK shoe size but I do know a lot of guys (and gals) with bigger IQs and many with smaller feet

So is it true what they say about men with big feet then John?

With regard to the rest of what you say, I have no idea. I am not in the finance business. If you scroll up a bit you will see that my take on all this comes indirectly because experience with ex-EJ employees.

Welcome to this particular bunfight though. Fun isn't it?

EMC

Actually TL are fully authorised to hold and deal all securiies on behalf of clients. they do it now and as i understand it, will continue to do so. Probably best to check the shoe size before the foot is inserted into the mouth

Yes I totally agree Anon 25 - which makes Towry look even worse doesn't it ??

Also, quite an unusual approach for a "client"..........................................

Anon 21

Do you have a life beyond hating towry? I think I've found you out..... I think you were one of the useless unintellegent people Towry didn't offer a contract to or you applied and wasn't offered a job - makes sense of your hatred when there's been a bitter pill.

And as for my comments I'm gladly they are wildly known and if you read them properly I am not a towry lover - I am always very balanced in my comments - "previous post" stated that I felt the project team in charge if the takeover would have to shoulder a degree of responsibility in the fiasco as they should have been constantly in touch with the EJ lot to ensure transactions were being completed.

And if it wasn't for jerks like you then clients wouldn't have been scared into making rash decisions with their money out of fear due to the utter bull***it you spout to gain your next buck of commission. So it wouldn't have caused this disdain. (you can look that work up in the dictionary under D)

have a good day - I'm off to play archery with the other village idiots I know - and for your information I'm not a tit but I do have 2 very bigs ones!! But not as big as the Ex-Ej bunch of scared little boys that have to slag of others in order to make themselves feel good & successful.

Added information:

Anon21 please accept my apologies my post wasn't just directed at you - it was also to Anon 16 - your other clown friend.

Anon16 - im glad I'm helping your tits to grow by getting on them so much. And for your information I do not want some one man band IFA to manage my money as they'll simply place it in the highest paid CIB with an insurance company which I could quite easily do myself. My portfolio is very well managed (not by towry) by a professional wealth management firm that do their job properly & weren't previous bettaware men / Avon ladies like the ex ej lot -

Andrew Fisher in my opinion has made a huge clanger in merging those two companies - his was exceptionally professional and had advisors that were supremly qualified and terrific at their job before this merger debacle, but I'm sure he will make it right eventually.

ANON 16- you have made the blog worthwhile as it's all about opinions and each persons post is as important to citywire as the others so it's great your comments have made me pitch in again with my two pence worth.

Anon 4 Zillion etc. thanks. As I said, I might drive people nuts but at least it extends the conversation for a while. Though I have noticed that every single time I confront my accusers such as Anon 21 when they make daft comments like this 'EMC - I've already caught you out so i suggest you re-invent yourself.' they disappear off from that particular blog/comments thread.

Every time he/she does that it just convinces me even more that should I ever decide to opt for an IFA - which is not at all practical in my case but anyway - I would not trust that particular guy/gal to look after the change that my husband throws in the kitchen drawer when he empties out his pockets when he gets home from work. He/she is not doing the entire profession any favours because of such silly, vague and accusatory statements which are then never, ever, followed through with some kind of logic.

Flame away 21, 16 etc. Sadly I doubt you will here but will regroup and attack another day from the beginning again.

Again I forgot to sign that EMC. Just in case Anon 21 needs a clue for 'catching me out'.

EMC - hmmm wonder what EMC used to have as a screen name?

Following the last few comments I think it is important to summarise why this whole Towry situation is such a serious matter - a very serious matter for all parties involved and should be treated as very serious.

1. There are clients who are trying transfer out of Towry and also clients who have remained with Towry who have had their income from investments stopped or interrupted. They rely on this income to maintain their standard living. Towry struggle to give them details as to what has happened to this income. Their right to access to their own income is being prevented by Towry.

2. There are clients who are wanting to sell out of investments and can't because they don't have control of their assets whilst with Towry. Individual clients are complaining to Towry for compensation of £1,000's. Best execution is a fundamental principle of clients being able to trust the financial services system. Clients need to know they can have access to their money as expected and react to market/personal circumstances as expected. Towry are losing money for clients because of a disregard toward best execution.

3. There are thousands of clients who have no immediate access to their cash they have on their accounts. Cash on their accounts was always promoted as instant access with just a phone call to completed the process. It is now taking up to six weeks to have the same money available. Again Towry are preventing clients from having access to their own money.

4. Towry is benefitting financially from retaining funds. Generally they receive 0.5% of the value funds as a trail commission each year. The clients pay this commission. They are paying for a service they don't want and advisers who are helping the clients are missing out on remuneration that the client has agreed should be theirs by appointing them as their adviser. Towry is charging clients for a service that the client does not want.

5. Clients are simply worried that their money has gone missing. Towry have not been able to tell clients where their money is when clients have phoned them. Towry have written to clients to say that they have no money with Edward Jones/Towry when the client actually have still got money administered through them. Towry have written to clients saying they have not transferred a holding when the holding has transferred. Towry send out statements to clients with a list of risk investments but with a summary showing the entire portfolio is held in cash.

6. Significant amounts of money are involved in this whole process. Towry has delayed the transfer of at least ten’s of millions of pounds.

We live in a free society and anyone can think anything they like about this situation. But I think the average person in the street would be appalled that one company could be causing so many serious problems for so many clients. I think this matter should be treated extremely seriously and any comments that try to make a joke out this whole transfer process or try to deny that it is a serious problem can have no idea of the negative impact this is having on clients and the industry. They certainly don’t understand or have little regard for treating client’s fairly.

Anon 3 - Towry are not generally collecting 0.5% as trail commission. The rates were re-negotiated (upwards of course) just prior to the EJ sale. Another example of TCF being flouted as this was never / has never been explained to clients.

I understand your point Anon 3 but as I have said, over and over again, without at least one or two voices putting the possibility of another side to the issues then these blogs simply peter out and die. Just because there are 3 or 4 of us on here who don't take everything stated by the likes of Anon 16 and 21 as the 'facts' as they like to present them, is actually a good thing. The problem is twerps (not naming any numbers but upper teens/lower 20s) then start making totally off the wall posts stating as 'fact' s like the following:

1. that we are all the same person - we are not.

2. that we (combined person?) work for Towry - can only speak for myself and I do not, it would be one hell of a commute.

3. that we are all totally brainwashed by Towry - I am not, as I have stated, my only experience in all this was having to deal with the fallout when people were sucked in, used up and spat out by Edward Jones - note I said Edward Jones NOT Towry. They are still doing it by the way. It is that experience of my own that makes me at least question whether Towry are being truthful and that EJ HQ really have put some major road blocks in the way of these transfers.

My weapon is usually based in humour, people notice humour over rants and, even (sorry) over dry analysis. As I said, I do take it seriously but I feel that when totally nutso comments are made that misstate the facts and/or start in on people like Fisher commenting on his face and calling him silly variations on his name, that they deserve to be shown up as having the intelligence of a turnip and as a client (albeit not of any IFA) I would no more trust them with my pension money than I would the average Miss America contestant.

EMC

Anon 3, a question. Given that I have first hand knowledge for years of seeing how Edward Jones treat its employees and ex-employees and given that they pulled out of the UK at a moments notice with no information being given by them from their head office to their own clients, not to mention the fact that many of existing employees only heard via e-mail, given all of that, why is it so very surprising to you to hear that the HQ in the US might be dragging their feet, either deliberately or simply just 'cos?

You have to take into account the mindset. They are based in St. Louis, the very heart of the midwest. Given their assets, the numbers involved probably seem paltry to them and no doubt the staff working there can't see what the fuss is about. I am not saying the clients in the UK are paltry, if they owed me five bucks I'd want it just the same. Life in the midwest does not move at the speed of light to put it mildly, add to that the general attitude if you scratch even slightly, that they feel the UK owes them for WW2 - hard to believe but they still rattle on about it, usually with their facts wrong, I am sure that no one working on the situation in St. Louis stays late to finish up or lies awake worrying that yet another day has passed with little or no movement on the cases they are handling. Especially for people who are no longer 'their' clients. Do they care that it 'looks bad' for Edward Jones in the UK. They don't give a damn what the British public think of them.

I am sure the next question will be, why does Towry not put this in writing to the clients? I don't even know if it is the case, like everyone else here I am just speculating. But if the above is along the right lines, then I imagine the Towry are working hard to move this to a swift conclusion, engaging in a war of words with EJ US, or worse still, anything legal, would be even more disaster for the clients. Once anything escalates to a legal level everything tends to grind to a snails pace.

Bad enough that Towry have to waste valuable time going after some who tried to push their luck to remind them what a contract means, and that it is not a good thing to breach it. A case they have to pursue because if I thought some ex-boa was rifling through my personal information to pass on to a third party I would be mad as hell if Towry did NOT follow through with a firm slap on the wrist.

No idea what will be the outcome but every case of a similar nature that I have ever seen always results with contract breaker either asking to settle to avoid penalty and settles OR the court finds for the complainant, which in this case would be Towry.

EMC

In response to anonymous 14 - Edward Jones is history in the UK. Edward Jones has no legal obligation to clients they left behind because they sold that obligation to Towry and FSA agreed for Towry to take on that obligation. If Edward Jones provided a poor service to Towry after the sale what does the client care about Edward Jones, Edward Jones is not providing them with a service. If the poor service was due to a software glitch at Towry clients wouldn't then focus on the company who provided the software service, their beef would be with Towry for choosing and using the software company. Edward Jones is a red herring at this stage of the game.

I wait very very very patiently for Towry to take legal action against Edward Jones - I just can't see what case Towry would have. Even if there was a case that would have nothing to do with the immediate issue of giving the clients was they rightfully demand. If Towry have to pay out alot of money to sort the problems and Edward Jones had somehow broken agreements with Towry then it would be a simple case of claiming costs back from Edward Jones. To imply there would be a delay in a resolution to a clients right to their own money is farcical.

Towry did go after some advisers a few months ago trying to force an injunction against those advisers. Last thing I read about this back April time was that the hearings were to be set in July. We are in July - I have heard no news about any date for a hearing. Could it possibly be that there is no hearing date? - that the case against the advisers was dropped by Towry? - the ominous silence around this potential injunction (there was never an injunction applied) leads me to think that Towry have dropped the ball - or perhaps they have been forced to drop the ball because there was never a case to answer!

If I were Towry I would be far more concerned about treating customers fairly and ensuring that the obligations of the sale from Edward Jones were fully complied with rather than spending time on the vague subject of whether an ex-employee has honoured their contract or not.

This whole issue is very simple - Towry has control of clients money who want to transfer. Towry gave these clients a contract in writing with a promise to transfer their money in 30 days. In most instances this has not happened. It is Towry's full responsibility to sort it out and face the full cost of sorting it out. Towry or anyone else blaming others is not a solution for these clients. Towry have a legal obligation to do whatever it takes to get it right for these clients.

Just posting quickly to say thank you for the reply Anon 3. I realise it is pretty late there. I will read your reply thoroughly but wanted to respond.

With regard to the case coming up in July, I can only say what I have seen in similar cases, here not in the UK, and in every case here the thing was settled before the due date because the 'accused' (for the want of a better word and for expediency, I know it's not the correct term) always agreed to the terms and agreed not to contact their ex-clients in return for the entire thing not going to court, thus saving everyone's time but perhaps more important, salvaged something of the already battered IFA image.

I would add that as a client I would be deeply offended if an ex-boa or advisor accessed my personal pension files at my bank because he/she knew he/she was going to either quit because they didn't like the merger or be let go because they were not up to the new bank's standards and my bank did NOT go after them. You keep banging on about how this affects your industry in the eyes of the public. I AM the public. A lot more informed than I was when I first started watching these and other forums, and so far none of you look too good. Especially the UK's version of the 'Group of Seven, only without the talent'.

Sorry forgot to sign it again. EMC.

A follow up Anon 3, re the case against the not so talented group of seven, I checked on previous articles, it said a date would be set in the latter half of July, not sure what the date is where you are but right now it is 7.38 p.m. on July 5th.

EMC

The issue is again the clients and TCF and the fault and responsibility lays clearly with Towry.

EMC - the Towry plant - stop deflecting from the truth you needs to remember the facts not that they normally bother you - it is the clients money, they come first and they and only they decide where their money goes.

The majority of good adviser with a back bone and integrity and sensible clients have made the right and only decision regarding Towry and now they cannot cope with the volume, is it 10,000 clients or cases ? and counting, of the mass exodus and there is still a lot more to go from what I hear. That says it all except for those that are deaf.

The responsibility lies with Towry to sort and in the next few months I am sure they will find the resources to do so. The next problem will be the clients will want compensation.

Anon 11. My God you really do have a serious case of GWBushism don't you? If I am not with you I am against you and therefore a 'plant.? LOL oh how funny. Am I a pretty plant? As long as I am not Purple Loosestrife because that lays havock with our wetlands. Also given the level of your grammar and logic, I'd say I'm a little higher up the IQ stakes whether plant, mineral or animal, than your good self. But do please prove me wrong if you can. First, perhaps you could define what you mean by 'plant.? Am I still all the same person as everyone else who happens to disagree or at least question? Or have I now been granted a genus all of my own?

Sorry... reading through your comment... so I 'needs' to remember the facts? do I?

I check the 'facts' that are presented here and find that they are not 'facts' but but rather they are conjecture. Damn that pesky truth, bites you in the a** every time doesn't it Anon 11?

Anon 11 if you are the cream of the UK IFA crop, God help the clients.

PS sorry in case Anon 16 or 21 are still sleuthing, that last post, once again I forgot to sign it EMC.

EMC

The good news is 1000s of clients are moving as they have rejected they expensive Towry proposition and the word is spreading - these are the facts and because of the delays the complaints are coming in.

It is all about client choice and their freedom do deal with people they can trust.

I know this concept is lost on some - next time I will try and put that in simpler terms - 3 letter words - for EMC. Ha!

It would be funny except for some it is causing some worry - but then why worry - they are only clients.

LOL I really get under your skin don't I? That is just too funny. everyone has choice, have you ever tried to move money out of Edward Jones' grasp?

EMC

Anon 14 as a client of EJ now Towry I have tried to re-register funds 7 months and waiting in my case, assets held in cash only took 5 months I have received a cheque at last. Mr Fisher has stated he is confident backlog will be cleared within 4 weeks I have consistently been told this since March 2010. Financial Ombudsman is now dealing with my case.

and where is my Towry advisor throughout all this??? He doesn't answer his phone or return my texts or calls as I am now being dealt with by an anonymous transfer team!

Is it the "hit squad" at Towry sending out incorrect statements to clients with no date on them or warnings that the statements might be inaccurate?

Incorrect statements are being sent by Towry to clients. If a client request a statement there seems to be no checking that the facts being sent to the client are accurate! This causes further worry for the clients and extra work for their adviser who, yet again, is trying to sort out the mess.

Oh and I forgot to mention - most of these incorrect statements sent out by Towry are in response to complaint letters! What is their excuse for this latest screwup?

I am so sorry for the clients involved. From an ex BOA - who takes no notice of the insults from some that I was an overpaid tea maker, I actually know these people and I know how distressed they will be. Towry needs to communicate with them. If they had done this from the start then maybe they wouldn't have been scared into transferring out. EJ may have brainwashed us into their overenthusiastic americanisms, but communication was very high on the agenda, and that is one part of their business model that really, really worked.

Nearly 8 months, however I did receive a cheque last month approx 5% of my assets as previously mentioned and in the first two weeks this month a further cheque for 0.8% of my assets. Only another 94.2% to go Mr Fisher that small fraction again I know. But you have got another 2 weeks to sort out the remaining balance if you can find my funds that appear to have disappeared from my April statement!

I have started a countdown to the end of the month when Towry have said the backlog will be all sorted. Last count was that clients that I know of personally have a total of over £3,500,000 of their money waiting to transfer over, mostly in-specie. Some of these clients have waited since early February.

I trust that all the missing income that should have been paid to the clients will have been accounted for and paid out also by that time.

I wish Towry all the best in completing these transfers, and I assume the ten's of millions of other assets from other clients. It must be done in the time Towry said they were going to do it or esle it will be yet another broken commitment from Towry. Can they afford another broken promise?

Countdown continued as a crude measure of Towry meeting their target of completing the backlog by the end of July - yesterday the total figure for clients I know of who have been delayed in transfers was over £3,500,000.

Today 15th July - the figure is............... still over £3,500,000.

I still wish Towry all the best because it will help clients get what they want.

Countdown continued as per previous entries - amount of client money that I know of that is has waited more than 30 days to transfer was over £3,500,000 yesterday ............... and still the same today.

I am confident however some small amount has moved as very hard to track the details - any small amount helps to meet Towry's promised target of the end of July.

Anonymous 3 ...... do please get in touch with us - we'd love to know more.

Find our contact details on our website:

www.treatingcustomersshabbily.co.uk

Kind regards

Countdown continued as per previous entries - amount of client money that I know of (just clients who have used my service) that have waited more than 30 days to transfer was over £3,500,000 on Friday ............... it has gone down!!!! It is now just over £3,400,000.

This is good news for clients - perhaps not a giant a leap as I would expect but there are still 13 calendar days for Towry to do the rest.

Countdown continued as per previous entries - yesterday total transfers waiting that I know of was over £3,400,000 ............... today it is still just over £3,400,000.

Started this countdown on the 14th July - so far Towry has moved around £100,000 in five days - I expect there will be a significant rush over the next 12 days to finish the rest off.

Countdown continued - yesterday total transfers waiting was over £3,400,000 ............... today it is over £3,300,000.

Towry has moved around £200,000 in six days which is progress! - Still expecting there to be a significant rush to finish the rest off. Hope that Towry don't start blaming other parties involved in the process for further delays if the end of July promise cannot be met.

Anon 3 - quality - have you called William Hill to see what the chances are of TL actually keeping a promise?

Countdown continued - yesterday total transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today it is over £3,300,000.

Towry has moved around £200,000 in seven days but I still sense this mad rush.

Perhaps they will move towards bulk transfers from fund managers to the receiving schemes in order to hopefully speed things up. Just hope they can pass accurate information on to the receiving schemes in order to highlight whose units are whose.

Countdown continued - yesterday total transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today it is still over £3,300,000.

Still waiting patiently.

Countdown continued - Friday total transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today, MOnday, it is still over £3,300,000. But then again it has been the weekend.

Still waiting patiently.

Anon 3 - are you ok waiting by yourself over there? would you like me to send in some supplies of KFC and pop to ensure that you don't miss the Securicor van when all the transfer correspondence arrives from TL??

The end of the month is on a Saturday but i would fully expect the Towry Law (s)Hit Squad to be working to ensure promises are kept.

I only hope you were given a good letter opener for Christmas...........

Thanks Anon 21 - glad to know my enties have at least one reader!

Countdown continued - Monday total transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today, Tuesday, still over £3,300,000. The weekend doesn't seem to have made any difference. Slightly worrying.

Spoke to the receiving scheme and they said they are NOT noticing any greater activity in order for the deadline to be met.

Countdown continued - remember his is a crude measure. Tuesday total transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today, Wednesday (admit it is first thing this AM) still over £3,300,000.

Have had the receiving scheme tell me that where clients have been told by Towry that Towry has done all they can in the transfer process there is no evidence from fund managers or the receiving scheme that details from Towry have been received in order to be able complete the transfer.

I would assume that Towry would check with the receiving scheme that all is complete. But then again.

Anon 3 - as you will no doubt be receiving a deluge of correspondence from Towry in the next 2 days, may I suggest you take your office door off otherwise the postman will be there for hours which won't do for your letterbox.

In fact, I have just been out and purchased the DeWALT DW979K2 which I believe will be thoroughly up for the job and I'm happy to lend it to you seeing as it's for such a good cause. Just call it me doing my bit for the community.

On the subject of doors, the one at Towry's head office is a revolving door. They need it with their staff turnover. Perhaps one day, someone may have the sense to lock Andrew Fisher up in the cupboard beneath the stairs.

Countdown continued. Wednesday transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today Thursday, over £3,300,000!

I am beginning to think that Towry are measuring the transfer process as being done if they have "initiated" the transfer process. Not measured by whether or not the assets have completely settled in the new account.

Clearing the transfer backlog at Towry does not now seem possible by the end of July. Is this yet another false promise/statement from Towry?

Well,well, well, 2 days to go and as with Anon 3 the transfer process has been initiated! Well done Towry I've only been waiting since November 2009, however the complaints department have commented that they are close to resolving my complaint! I eagerly await the Financial Ombudsman verdict and perhaps..........

a comment from the FSA at some stage?

Sorry I was just being silly on the last point, I cannot reasonably expect the FSA to get involved where a client has been treated with such contempt unless of course their are other clients having similar problems that they are not currently aware of.

Countdown continued. Thursday transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today Friday, over £3,300,000!!!

Nothing seems to be moving! This is seriously undermining the confidence of clients in the financial services system. A major company like Towry says publicly that they will clear the backlog by the end of July and there is still a major backlog that goes up to 5 months ago!

Clients are worried about who has got their money and is their money being protected by whoever has custody of their assets. They do not know what to believe. Towry tells them it will be transferred then I tell them that it hasn't been - this is totally unacceptable.

Surely clients have to confident in the financial services system and know that their money is safe. How can we expect the industry to operate otherwise?

FSA where are you?

All transfers have been completed. As they said they would be. Crow pie anyone?

Countdown continued. Friday transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today Saturday, over £3,300,000!!!

Clients are now phoning me saying that they have been sent cheques as settlements for their complaints. When I look in their accounts assets from Towry are still not settled.

When I ask the client if they have been give a "nil" statement from Towry to show that Towry no longer has custody of the client's assets the client says they have not been sent one. When I ask the client how has the amount of cheque been justified (some cheques include reference to fees being reimbursed) the client says there is just a cheque with no details as to how the amount of the cheque has been calculated.

The client is then being told by Towry that if they present the cheque that will be indication that the complaint has been settled.

This is outrageous. How can a complaint be settled without evidence that the complaint has been addressed. The complaints mainly have to do with assets being transferred in a timely fashion. There is no evidence that assets have been transferred so how can the complaint be resolved?

How can anyone except a payment when it refers to costs that have never been quantified to the client previously?

I am sure that Towry are going to be saying to the press that they have done all they can to clear the backlog implying that they have completed the transfers. Certainly, for clients I deal with Towry, at best will have only "initiated" the transfers. This means nothing to the client as the client see nothing settled on their new account. If Towry had any sense of care for the client they would be contacting the receiving scheme to confirm that assets had settled in the account. They should then be sending a "nil" statement to clients along with a breakdown of all transactions since the last "formal statement" that detailed transactions. Only then can the client make a fair judgement that any complaint can be resolved.

Why am I having to promote this information? Why isn't this standard procedure for the industry? Why is there a huge black hole in custody of assets when it comes to transfers?

FSA where are you?

FSA what are you doing about this situation to maintain confidence in the system?

FSA what are you doing about this situation to ensure clients are receiving the correct information about their finances in order to know their finances are protected?

And to think i took that door off for nothing.

Well, well, well... It's August and my case was a priority in March and still no funds have re-registered!

Anonymous 6. Have you contacted the wrap platform company? It's their problem.

Well that's it then - I guess it is all done and all funds have been transferred???

Countdown continued. Friday transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today Monday, over £3,300,000!!!

The terms and conditions for Towry Investment Mangement Ltd, that ex-Edward Jones had their money transferred over into, states:

"Section 18.4 - We shall within 30 days from when you tell us in writing; transfer or pay to you all or part of the ISA investments held or proceeds arising from those investments"

The key words in this very important statement are "to you". It doesn't say "we will transfer out" or "we will begin the process" or "clients will have to be involved in the process" or "third parties are responsible for completing the processs". Fine if it did but it clearly does not and nor does it warn clients of any other situation that may prevent Towry from meeting this promise.

Towry have clearly broken their terms and conditions with many clients. Transfers have not been completed as Towry promised they would be. To make matters worse the promises were broken for many clients months ago.

FSA where are you? Why are you permitting a company to flout their terms and conditions of business? How can consumers have confidence in the system when what is clearly in writing to them is totally ignored by a major company? It is making a mockery of terms and conditions of business which are a fundamental necessity in our industry.

I agree. Terms and conditions are essential in any industry. Hence an ongoing injunction and upcoming court case against some who deliberately flouted the Terms and Conditions they agreed to not to contact ex-clients.

Countdown continued. Monday transfers waiting was over £3,300,000 ............... today Tuesday, over £3,300,000!!!

I started this measure on 14th July with a figure of £3,500,000. Towry promised to these clients, via terms and conditions, that their transfers would be in their new accounts within 30 days of Towry's knowledge of the transfer request. There has been only token attention paid to this commitment by Towry.

Any individual or company that is flouting terms and conditions should be brought to account. Just as Towry have taken advisers accused of breaking their employment contracts to court, Towry themselves are facing legal action by individuals, through the courts, accusing Towry of breaking terms and conditions of business.

Clients shouldn't have to take major companies to court over terms and conditions. There should be processes in place, enforced by the FSA, to ensure companies are following their own terms and conditions. If a company cannot meet their own terms and conditions (the details of terms and conditions are not forced on companies when they create them - it is their choice as to what they initially agree with clients) then there has to be immediate action by the FSA.

Surely the FSA must have enough evidence by now to indicate that Towry have consistently not honoured their own terms and conditions. The longer the FSA lets this go on, without even making some kind of public statement, the more consumers are going to lose confidence in the system. The FSA have a statutory objective to maintain confidence in the financial services industry.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Tuesday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Wednesday, over £3,300,000.

This should no longer come as a surprise. Somehow Towry is able to exploit a gap in consumer protection when it comes to transfers. For whatever reason I think this is still going to be a slow process.

Clients only recourse for potential timely action is to complain to Towry if they think they have been financially disadvantaged. Be warned however that Towry are writing to clients to settle a complaint even though assets have yet to be transferred to the clients new account.

If any connected parties are really concerned about how they have been treated then of course they have a right to take the matter elsewhere. Other points of contact to express a concern would be:

The financial ombudsman - particularly if you are not satisfied with how you complaint has been handled by Towry - at any stage.

The FSA - if you have evidence that as a company Towry is collectively putting clients at a disadvantage.

Your MP - if you think that legislation needs to be changed to stop this from happening again and maybe to put political pressure into the system to make the authorities act now.

There is one other avenue which I am reluctant to point out but I will. I am an adviser and I tell all my clients that I am 99.9% certain that their money is safe even though Towry cannot accurately and in a timely fashion report where the clients assets are. However it has now got the point in time because I can no longer be 100% confident in the system, if the client is expressing a serious doubt over who has control of their assets, then I point out their right to take legal advice and their right to report their concerns to the legal authorities.

Has anyone thought that perhaps Towry does not have any ex-Edward Jones clients?

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Wednesday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Thursday, over £3,300,000.

The figures for transfers outstanding that I know are actually now higher than the £3,300,000 above. However I have tried to be as fair as possible as the above figure represents transfer that have been waiting for over around four months. There are now transfers that started around May time (around £1,000,000) that are showing as being significantly delayed but I am not including them in this measure.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Thursday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Friday, over £3,300,000.

However I must report that one client's assets (out of hundreds) have completely transferred after a six month wait with a final small payment of cash that was on his Jones account. No fees were deducted by Towry and I guess because the client complained during the process Towry sent £100 as a goodwill gesture. The client had asked for £58.75.

Client was extremely happy that it was finally complete, thanked me and my staff for our help all during the delays and wanted to invest some more through my company. Funny how good service works!

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Friday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Monday, over £3,300,000.

This is going to continue to be a very long and drawn out process.

I am intrigued by the fact that a website has been created by clients who have been affected by Towry's handling of their transfer requests. I came across another website petition the other day run by a person who claimed he had been inappropriately sold AIG Bonds by Coutts which is part for RBS. The petition seems to have made a difference in that now the FSA are investigating the sale of these bonds from 2001 to 2008. It will be very interesting to see if during the investigation the fact that a petition was put together helped make a difference to the FSA paying attention!

Countdown continued. Monday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Tuesday, over £3,300,000.

Alot of clients' cash is coming over but this was never part of the measure - and even so we can't tell if it is the correct amounts as no statements to go with it.

It seems that no one has a right to a timely and accurate transfer of adminstration rights from one company to another. It seems like the system can allow ten's of millions of pounds just go into limbo. This can't be right.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Tuesday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Wednesday, over £3,300,000.

The bulk of these funds can now be traced to transfer requests five months ago.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Wednesdays transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Thursdays, over £3,300,000.

Does anyone care to know anymore?

FSA where are you?

ello is anyone else still in here? I have been following avidly and i think you are not alone. No backlog has been cleared at all - remember, you cannot believe a word that Fisher or his henchmen spout.

I only hope that the FSA have been in and are waiting for the outcome in order to properly punish a CEO and company that have tarnished the name of our profession.

And never mind the FSA - when will Palemon realize that he is a liability and send him on his merry way.

He won't mind. He has been quoted (many times) as saying he is not in it for the money and doesn't have to work............

FSA / Palemon - where are you?

Countdown continued. Thursday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Friday, over £3,300,000.

Cash continues to flow in nicely - this is evidence that Towry have done something! However we are almost two weeks over the time that Towry said the backlog would be cleared and months have gone by since the written promise of 30 days - and clients sees no significant difference to where we were months ago. What are they supposed to believe?

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Friday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Monday, over £3,300,000.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued. Monday transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Tuesday, over £3,300,000.

FSA where are you?

Countdown continued (after a short break) From my last report on the 18th August transfers that I know of waiting and significantly delayed was over £3,300,000 ............... today Sunday 29th August, over £3,300,000.

FSA where are you?