Towry's transfer problems down to naïveté, not conspiracy

Andrew has clearly found the Elixir of Youth.

na·ive·té or na·ïve·té (nv-t, nä-, n-v-t, nä-)

n.

1. The state or quality of being inexperienced or unsophisticated, especially in being artless, credulous, or uncritical.

2. An artless, credulous, or uncritical statement or act.

Check with the Financial Ombudsman SOME clients have been waiting in excess of 6 months! The clients naively thought they would be treated fairly

whether it's Naivete or conspiracy, you are pointing the finger at Mr Fisher - wait for all kinds of legal papers flying to Citywire. dont you know Mr fisher is above critisism. this is obviously the fault of nasty commission charging advisers somehow

Why is it not surprising that everyone loves to criticise Mr Fisher?! Live by the sword - die by the sword!

I think Alex Steger has to look up the definition of naïveté and better understand ethics, or the lack of, within business.

Andrew Fisher/Towry had from around January to put in resources to cope with the requests for transfers. These requests did not happen all of a sudden. Towry knew there was a backlog as early as the end of February because clients ISA's were not being transferred within 30 days. If they did not know then they were totally ignoringt their written commitment to clients to have the funds transferred within 30 days - which makes the matter even worse.

The key quesion to ask - and one Alex Steger should have asked and reported on is "what resources did Towry put in place to cope with the backlog when Towry first knew that their contractual obligations to clients were not being honoured?" Any investigation would have found that they were relying totally on the Edward Jones service in the US to complete the transfers which for whatever reason was not enough and then by late April Towry had no plans to cope with the known backlog at all when the contract with Edward Jones ended. This is not naïveté it is ignoring of contractual requirements and a culture of being prepared to not treat clients fairly. Easy to conclude they were doing it in order to retain assets and improve their balance sheet.

Any respectable organisation would have put in resources in late February early March time - not wait until late June to announce improved resources. Alex I am disappointed you did not ask the key question.

Can't believe what i have just read. Is Mr Steger on medication?

If he seriously believes that Towry/Fisher were in the LEAST bit naive he should hang up his typewriter and seek out another profession - a job in PR perhaps? Maybe Towry Law have a vacancy or two. Why not just say "ah bless 'em, they just bit off more than they could chew" - think the Alex Steger is the naive party here.

Fisher is clearly an ambitious and intelligent individual (albeit with a prickly personality and caustic tongue) but he/Towry knew what they were getting into when they acquired EJ's client book.

Whats your next blog post Alex? - 'Santander - not to blame for Abbey's dismal service levels' ? After all, they have only been in charge now for 5 years, maybe they were just naive Señors when they took Abbey over.

Shame on you and your lazy naive journalism/blogging.

I talked to the US EJ transfer team. It was the same team that had always dealt with transfers out. As a VERY long standing BOA I only ever had ONE transfer out. This team was small and efficient. I was told there were no extra staff added to the team. I know that at least half of the clients I gave sevice to have requested transfers. That is an unprecedented number for this team, they simply could not do it, but made every effort.

Towry should have thrown more people into this (maybe giving those us of that lost our positions very early on) a few more month's work. At least we knew the systems and clients and this could have been completed without all of this unfairness. We should have been given the chance to give our much loved clients the last piece of service we were able before being put on 'garden leave' at, in my case, extremely short notice. Clients went to an unmanned, uncontactable office and were completely dismayed. The staff Towry took over and the clients have been treated very shabbily.

One thing Mr Fisher is NOT is naive! He knows all of this, he simply does not care. That is the difference between Towry and Jones. At Jones - we cared. We were taught to care by the American culture of politeness and communication and doing things correctly. I am still VERY angry that Weddle and his cronies abandoned us - I think they were NAIVE enough to believe Fisher's spin that he would take care of the Jones clients.

It's simple - Jones HAD to sell the business, it was losing money! They simply chose the wrong buyer.

FSA - fine Towry for every day for every client, and fine them heavily. I'm so glad I sold all of my ISA before leaving and sent the money to my bank. I knew this would happen. I lost the ISA wrapper for that money, but at least I still have the money under my control. I did try very hard to intimate my fears to the clients, but I was told NOT to by my line manager.

Media attention is being drawn to this.

It is unrealistic to blame one man. Mr Fisher relies on his management team to keep him informed. They may be glossing over the rust a little. It is also true that

ex EJ advisers are desperate for the transfers out to keep their own careers afloat. Towry only wanted the top 20% of EJ clients anyway. If EJ were initiating the transfers from St Louis it is no surprise there is a backlog. Towry are probably way out of their depth with this takeover, they do not seem to have the resources. But it is questionable of them to claim they have been blissfully unaware. Mr Fisher attracts criticism because he is openly critical to other companies. Perhaps Max Clifford could help with his PR skills, speaking your mind isn't always the sensible thing to do!

To long standing BOA, I used to get very frustrated with the CAT team and would have liked to do the transfers myself so that I would know they had been carried out in a timely manner and accurately. I agree BOAs should have been kept on longer to deal with these issues but there was nowhere for them to go and would have cost too much for Towry.

I do see EJ clients who ask me to recommend an adviser or company to them. I do not feel it is my place to give them direction so I just say shop around before making a choice.

To Mr Fisher, our clients were very angry about the lack of communication to them and many found it very difficult to speak to their adviser at Towry, you must understand this left them deeply suspicious of your company and the services it offers.

Isn't everybody bored with this now? As an ex-Towry adviser (not anonymous) who left 2 years ago I do read posts that relate to them (as I am still a shareholder so have a vested interest) but lately this itself is becoming a chore.

Problems with transfers are not going to get sorted by complaining on Citywire - complain to Towry, complain to the FSA, complain to the Ombudsman, go to your MP if you like but don't keep doing it on here as this will not solve anything (in my humble opinion).

I have no time for Towry myself so am certainly not defending them, I too have experienced transfer delays for old clients that have approached me, but I see these blogs as a way to educate each other about what is going on in the industry and I think we are all now well aware of the issues at Towry.

Citywire please take note, once something NEW happens then please create a blog but please do not recycle old stories no matter how much recycling may normally be seen as a good thing.......

I agree with Julian, spending time writing messages on here is just so pointless. I for one am off to the golf course.....and my name.........J R Hartley.

Naivete? Arrogance more like. £1.5bn EJ client assets acquired by Towry for who clearly felt they would be hanging onto most of it but the clients are leaving in their droves and it seems that Towry are 'hanging on to the assets' as long as possible through, at best, blinkered mis-management and at worst....well plenty of other contributors have expressed their views on this...

This is poor reporting and lacks impartiality. It is a shame that CityWire use this as a wind up and in doing so damage their own credibility when most of the time City Wire is top class. You should do better.

The facts are the facts - clients have not been treated fairly and there is enough evidence on this scale to show this has been deliberate.

The Ombudsman and the FSA exist to investigate such matters and then

if appropriate compensate accordingly.

Towry who show extraordinary arrogance, matched only by the private banking culture their leaders come from, should not be allowed to continue to financially benefit from this incompetence at the expense of people to do not buy their proposition.

Let's have some objective reporting and let's start putting clients first after all it is their money and hence they should decide where they want it not being "shoe-horned" into Towry expensive, inflexible, one cap fits all, underperforming product. Is it not surprising so many, is it 6000 +, want out?

Alex, Please approach the Towry ministry of spin and enquire how many written compliants they have received re late transfers, and how many FSO/FSA complaints have been triggerd by their dillatory actions re transfers- i am sure this will not be "a minority!!!.

Also - please ask how many new ex EJ 'ers are now off -long-term sick as they cannot cope with the Bancassurance style targets and ethos of Towry outlaw.

Then ask Fisher where clients shares have disappeared to, after being sold (in error- when in-specie transfer was requested)- a huge black hole somewhere in HSBC India!

I would suggest that clients/IFA's write to the OFT, and Money Mail- their cash ISA transfer campaign seemed to work- after all MM were chasing delays in cash ISA's taking just 7 weeks- not six months like some of my clients!!

As an ex employee of Towry Law, by takeover not by choice, I found that the top level ethics and principles of good financial planning and service to clients was an excellent message. But as a business who has swallowed up other companies along its way what is preached at the top is often nothing like what is practiced in reality. I therefore believe that naivity may play a minor role in this administrative cock up. Its still no excuse though!

Every meeting i attended to hear Andrew Fisher and co, i pointed out that as a large proportion of E Jones clients had individual equities most would leave .

As with most comments made Andrew wasnt listening. This is not naievete it is arrogance. Another famous comment from Mr Fisher was that "individuals should not hold shares."

Get your facts straight Mr Steger

Edward Jones did not 'pick' the wrong buyer. They didn't care who bought it as long as someone did. I would be interested to know just how long they were out there with their cardbox sign saying 'For Sale, take it or we'll just dump the lot anyway.'

Now THAT would make a good story. For all the companies considering buying EJ UK, surely more than just one, how much time did they actually have to make a bid before EJ would have finished packing and walked?

Alex, perhaps your bosses will allow you a freebie trip to St. Louis to ask them? If you go, if you are in any way claustrophobic, do not go up on the archway thing, even when they release you from the coffin when you get to the top, the damn thing sways.

EMC

Alex Steger has got the title the wrong way round. Let's not let the EMC plant deflect the issue from the real culprits - Towry Law. Any genuine investigation will show they have flaunted the principles of TCF and done so knowingly for short term commercial gain.

Anon 10 - why is EMC a plant? I don't understand.

Julian,

I agree with your post whole-heartedly but this won't go away anytime soon as what you have is people not surviving in the IFA world as one man bands and are stressing about the next commission buck, ex boas with mo new job to keep them busy (no great surprise there) feet up tea & cakes don't normally earn 21k+ in the real world! So they keep the bitterness going against Towry when it was their precious EJ that dumped them forbthe first 2 bob & a sweetie wrapper! I find it so hard to comprehend thier faith in a company that sold them down the river in a banana boat with no oars!

Towry took a non-profit (for 10 years) business and made it profitable in 5 months. By losing the two-bit moaners that are constantly on thus blog as they have nothing else better to do. So I'm afraid it won't go away - small minded & brainwashed by a company that don't even exist anymore in he UK.

Now before I'm criticised for getting off subject...

1. No the backlog isn't acceptable.

2. Culpability lies in a number of areas.

3. There are people working night & day to resolve this issue and doIng what is best for the clients, nobody is ignoring it!

4. Ex boas not jack all about ISA transfers except how to scan on a form and it would have been an even worse situation keeping them on to do transfers.

5. If clients weren't being scaremongered into these transfers by listening to a load of tosh, for the next commission buck then this mess wouldn't be nearly as bad!

6. Agreed it hasn't been the easiest transition for anyone - but there are people trying their damn hardest to make a bad situation better. So have a bit of consideration for people who are working hard & trying their best in this mess -they are ex colleagues & friends (supposedly) so get of your high horses wind in your necks, control your commission greed and allow people to try and get on to fix it for the clients- which is what we all want (apparently) No?

To EMC

Jones DID pick Towry. Kirley said as much on doomsday. He and Fisher had been 'in talks' for ages. I don't know what insider dealing means but that's what I call it. A deal done with an insider.

Jones pulled the rug from under us and then Towry kicked us when we were down.

Anyway, this is just part of the New World Order , controlled by illuminati and masons, and skull and crossbones Yale twits.

And to all those who criticise people like me blogging on here and say let it rest, do you have to read it? It gives me a bit of fun, so there!

to Anon 400 zillion

1. Don't insult people you don't know, it's unbecoming!

2. Check spelling and grammar before posting reply, it makes you more credible???

Anon 7 - hats off you have just given me a proper LOLOL moment for the first time on these blogs.

Your post is do funny - I had visions of you sticking out your tounge too at the end of your post - if I know EMC like I think I do she'll be in fits of laughter then air mail you a lollypop!

Your comment about Mr Kirkey choosing T fir EJ I thinkhe was billy bu***s**ing everyone to make them feel better. He sold for 2 bob & a sweetie paper to the first buyer with a "star" world cup sticker.

May be time to remove your EJ microchip now (it's in the back of your neck)

But keep having fun with it all - it truly is a great hobby!

Am I pretty plant? Am I indigenous to my location? I do hope so. I don't mind being a weed as long as I am not Purple Loosestrife because it does such damage to our wetlands.

Regardless of your hearsay evidence, do you actually have any shred of proof that they were in talks 'for ages'?

My experience of Edward Jones is that they can be very fluid with the truth so I am still going to keep sticking my grubby little finger on the scale every time some twerp makes a statement as 'fact' when it is simply conjecture. Everything posted here with the exception of our own, hands-on, personal and direct experience (i.e. unless you are in the room during those discussions which, since you appear to be Ex-EJ) is conjecture. As you are Ex-EJ do feel free to ask someone to help you use a dictionary to look the word up.

I take it you have never been laid off before? Honey, it's not personal. It's business. Also, I would be most fascinated to know how you have managed to make Fisher a Yale alumni. Do tell. Again ask a friend to look it up for you and explain.

EMC

EMC

I think, if you can read properly, I did NOT say Fisher was a Yale alumni.

I can't ask a friend - I have none, being ex EJ and therefore complete illiterate and unloveable.

I was not 'laid off' - I was dismissed due to redundancy, and yes, I'd never been dismissed before.

What's wrong with hearsay?

I was commenting on the 'New World Order' that seems to be ruling our corporations and government. Bilderburgers and all that. None of us know who these people are - we can only imagine by the clues of their actions, Make the masses submissive by taking the rug out from under them.

And so to bed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh, and why so nasty?

Anon 7. Because sweet thing, you attacked me personally. You said in two threads that EMC is a plant. You name me by my sig file and therefore direct the post to me, I respond.

You implied in your post that Fisher is part of that hierarchy. Something your compadres love to do, drop a so-called 'fact' in their and it goes into blogs/forums/net folklore and suddenly Fisher is a Bilderburg/Yale alumni. Is he? If so I would love to see you proof that one.

Should you wish to debate this on a more intelligent level then I suggest you check back over my posts. My only gripe has ever been with EJ and the fact that the vast majority of the people they employed, and continue to employ, are completely and utterly unsuited to the job in any way, be it stock broker or BOA, and eventually they get churned (in the HR sense) through the system and are out on their ear. Not their fault but they were in the wrong job to start with.

Judging by your assumptions, rambling inaccuracies and swallowing whole of some of so called 'facts' presented to you, I doubt you were in the right job either. I have/had a lot of sympathy with the people/cases I worked with. I also advised them to take a deep breath, get legal advice and move on to something they were suited to and enjoyed when they were ranting and crying to me that they were going to 'steal' client information (yes some actually used those terms) and pass it on. Fortunately most of them listened to me and my colleagues. We tend to be a more sensible and pragmatic lot over here. Those who didn't found out to their cost that the courts side with terms and conditions of contracts.

So, now that I have answered your question, you have not replied to mine, why, exactly, do you categorise me as a plant? What kind of plant? Do I get to choose?

EMC

PS Anon 14 - laid off and made redundant - same thing. Ask your ex-ubermasters EJ. As for what is wrong with hearsay, well now that you are 'laid off' you will have lots of time to watch TV and hopefully will see why hearsay is not admissible.

Apparently I owe you a lollipop. Promise to drop one off at the place of your choice next time I am your side of the pond. which will be a while but you never know. No where near bed-time for me yet you see.

So, just a quick reminder, a plant? Ummm why?

EMC

EMC

I am Anon 7. The plant comment is Anon 10.

I refer you to my previous comment about reading.

Good morning.

All these anonymous people it is confusing! All this defamation and no-one wanting to put there name to any of it. That is what impacts credibility.

From the postings on this blog I think Mr Fisher, and I am in no way a fan, has got his strategy spot on.

How is it defamation? I think you may find that any comments will invariably fall under "fair comment". Not that i am a legal expect in libel laws of course.

Anonymous 15 - I think you'll find accusations of civil breaches of law made in a public forum is defamatory under libel law. A bit like me blogging on a consumer website that Tesco injects mercury into it's food.

for the avodiance of doubt on that last fact - as far as I am aware it doesn't and the statement is made merely to emphasise a point!

The truth is that 1000s of discerning clients are moving out because they do not want to shoe horned into an expensive products that rarely matches the benchmark it tracks. Why - because of the ongoing total charges !

Sadly the model is as flawed as was the Edward Jones one but with equally poor management.

TCF puts the cleints first - when the regulators catch up with this - the truth will come out. The complaints are pooring in.

EMC - i have intimated this before - on numerous blogs - that you are in some way more connected to Towry Lie than you let on. I do not know if you are this slimy, odeous, Kirley fella (who i have never seen, met or heard of before EJ UK got bought) or some other EJ USA hack (trying to salvage any sort of reputation), but i think all the bloggers (Anon 400 Zillion excepted) neither believe you or value your comments.

No doubt you will post a response...possibly 4 or 5, ruffled feathers and all that. But as you quite rightly point out, I make a comment or 2 then disappear. Because i get bored reading your comments.

If you truly have no connection to defending and supporting TL then post away - because we will still believe that you do and you will be further damaging the credibility of TL and all associated with them.

If you do have a connection then I will leave it to your judgement as to what you should do. If you are an employee of TL, your judgment will be so bad you will no doubt ignor the advice, carry on, and further damage TL's reputation. See what I did. Either way, you lose.

And here is some conjecture to stick in your pipe and smoke it........EJ UK would have sold out to the best deal for EJ - not the staff or clients. Whether the deal attracted 1 or 100 offers. I attended no meetings, have no video footage or tape recordings and have not been privy to any classisfied documents. Am i wrong EMC? Because I have no evidence does that make my beliefs well off the mark, as you would have others believe

LOL when have I ever expressed any kind of admiration for Edward Jones? If you really did have a teensy bit of a brain you would have seen that I have consistently said that I dealt with ex-EJ employees who were hurt financially, emotionally by being lurred in, used up and spat out by the company. All I have ever done is say that maybe there are two sides of the story because my experience of EJ has not left a good impression. They are still doing it by the way and I think the same of them now as I did then and I am no longer working.

So, maybe I don't 'lose either way' because by putting words into my mouth - fingers?- you are one who looks like an idiot for trying yet again to twist the truth.

I am not a Towry or EJ employee. I am not a client. I am curious though, why on earth would you think that I am in the USA?

But as you are so convinced and claim, amazingly, to speak for everyone else here, tell me, do you work for one of Towry's competitors and therefor have a vested interest in undermining them at all costs in order to try to boost your own client base? That's what I think. I bet lots of others do too.

EMC

thank you - point proven.

Afraid to address points or answer real questions as usual Anon 16? Just throw in some unproven accusations and run? At least have the courage to answer one simple question, why on earth do you think I am in the USA? Inquiring minds would love to know. Otherwise, point proven, you are all mouth and not a trouser leg in sight.

EMC

Mr Steger ... you wonder why it is that after hiring a "10 Strong team" to sort out the mess, Towry still attacts flak?

We have £250K+ with EJ/Towry. We do not like the way they do business and we simply want to place our assets with someone else. We requested a transfer in March which to date has only been 8 % completed.

Now, you may attribute that to any cause you like ... naïveté, poor management, ulterior motives, hidden agenda, whatever.

But the fact of the matter is that while Towry takes it's time to make the transfers, we have been subjected by them to an unfair material change of contractual terms. Trading Standards words, not ours.

This means that we no longer receive our monthly statements so we don't know what cash we have in our accounts.

Despite Mr Fisher's assurance that we can obtain an ad hoc statement at any time from our 'advisor' we have so far not been able to obtain one from the Towry Bristol office.

Our daily pay-aways have been cancelled and despite Mr Fisher's personal assurances (letter dated 28 March), monthly pay-aways where not set up for us.

Despite following the Complaints procedure outlined by the Towry Bristol office, we have not even had the courtesy of an acknowledgement of our letters.

So it's not about the 'mere fact' of the length of time it is taking Towry to transfer assets, it's the incredibly shabby way that they are treating their customers in the process.

As far as we can see Towry are in breach of TCF Outcomes #5 and #6 and still nobody does anything about it.

We don't want to be part of 'flak' , we just want to be rid of Towry. So while you might feel exasperated or other people might feel 'bored' by all this posting, let's not forget that most IFA's posting on here do have one person at the heart of their frustrations.

Us, the simple customer. And we're quite grateful for their voices.

I hope this is true- but i have heard that Towry Lie are in the process of trying to obtain an injunction against a "major financial newspaper" to prevent the publication of a highly critical article on Towry Lie- Has anybody else any further information here??

I can't wait to read the article. All i will point out is that the papers are catching on here with Towry's blatant bully boy tactics, and constant breach of TCF. I say bring it on!!!! About time a somebody in the playgreound stood up to Fisher and his henchmen.

Anon 11 - do please say more; who told you about this injunction against major newspapers?

Is Andrew Fisher paying Citiwire to help them out with a positive article?

10 people assigned to deal with over 5000 transfer instructions will really put a dent in the backlog in the next few weeks!!! NOT What a sad joke.

Clients be warned Unit Trusts are paying Towry a commission for doing nothing. If Fisher wanted to do the right thing he would pay back the trail commissions to clients and put some investment into getting a better transfer team.

Alex Steger is a bit out of touch to say the least, most ex EDJ clients I know have been waiting over 5 months to get their transfers sorted.

TL have no concern for how clients are being disadvantaged. If you agree to go into their funds your portfolio is churned in days, if you want to transfer away no one wants to help.

TL shut local offices with no notification to clients, and the old telephone numbers don’t even ring through now. No wonder people want to move on mass.

The brokers they kept to service clients stayed because they wanted a set salary not because they were good at their jobs. Anyone with any sense go off Fisher’s merry-go-round long before music stopped.

With a no deal clause and pressured targets that don’t help clients it’s a super firm to work for – enjoy the share options that never materialise _ now that’s pay back for telling clients they should cash in good investments for the poorly performing IMM and its higher charges.

The angers mounting alright and so should the fines from the FSA. Clients have every reason to be angry!

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/1015165.article?cmpid=MME01&cmptype=newsletter

Well done Anon 17 and excellent Anon 18 this is us clients talking about shabby treatment.

I thought the FSA was there to protect the consumer from sharp practice. It is about time they started policing and raising standards.

Anon 11, Anon 10, Anon 18, Anon 17 - is everyone reading this sure all these 'Anons' are not actually the same person...I spoke to Citywire and they say that there is no need to post anonymously because you can re-register at anytime with your real names... I am beginning to think this is all a sham... coking up interest for other vested interests...

No doubt being prepared to post in opposition will get the haters to turn on me... I read the claims on some of the postings really carefully and there seems to me to be a lot of conjecture and half comments and that makes me think this is all linked to something bigger out there.

I could not agree more Clive, I think everyone entering postings here should be signing their names. The more I read these postings the more I realise the agenda... so some clients are ticked off and from what I see they are right to be.

But at the same time clearly a few ex EJ people are also feeding lots in here in an pop and somewhere they didn't get a job at and pretend EJ was a wonderful place...

Private investors be wary of the anonymous entrants to this blog...I for one now realise those not prepared to show their name are infact the same people writing over and over again... What is really going on here...I gather it is all to do with legal cases in the background isn't it.

Social media used to clever effect - but it doesn't make it accurate.

Now we're into september and we're still completely in the dark ; no news on the state of our account since Towry took over and we decided to move our investments away from their management. We're in limbo